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Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories  (Read 3322 times)

crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2022, 01:11:25 AM »

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What newspaper strips did you work on in real life?

I'm not sure you'd call it "real life," but I worked on the Star Trek and Dallas daily strips.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2022, 01:16:14 AM »

THE CHASE is around for free on youtube, and is the better of the two. LEOPARD MAN is Val Lewton, and turns up on TCM a lot. He made films for RKO that emphasized atmosphere over direct shocks and still hold up.

Yeah, you’re right, come to think of it. There were six TOTAL Hitch held back. No, wait...did I ALSO see NORTH BY NORTH WEST then? And PSYCHO? The mind does that to you.

The twist ending of REAR WINDOW (the short story) was the fact that the writer/hero was ONLY able to know the guy had buried his wife under the floor because he had watched the folks walk back and forth, back and forth over that floor so many times, just sitting there. The floor level was now different. That’s the rug that gets pulled out from under you.

No, the film is one of the greats and you can’t beat Jimmy Stewart or Grace Kelly or that close up where she comes in for the kiss. And the whole engineering aspect about building that apartment set and then lighting it according to time of day, is stuff of legend. Yeah, REBECCA was also great. Joan Fontaine just STARING as she comes into Manderlay, all wet...
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2022, 02:18:57 AM »


Quote
What newspaper strips did you work on in real life?

I'm not sure you'd call it "real life," but I worked on the Star Trek and Dallas daily strips.


Wow, Crashryan, I am suitably impressed, especially re Star Trek. You're a legend!!
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2022, 02:25:39 AM »


THE CHASE is around for free on youtube, and is the better of the two. LEOPARD MAN is Val Lewton, and turns up on TCM a lot. He made films for RKO that emphasized atmosphere over direct shocks and still hold up.

No, the film is one of the greats and you can’t beat Jimmy Stewart or Grace Kelly or that close up where she comes in for the kiss. And the whole engineering aspect about building that apartment set and then lighting it according to time of day, is stuff of legend. Yeah, REBECCA was also great. Joan Fontaine just STARING as she comes into Manderlay, all wet...


Thanks for the heads-up on those movies, Morgus. I should be able to find 'The Chase' at least.

And yes, that Grace Kelly shot is brilliant. So many wonderful scenes. Thelma Ritter is also great as the nurse who gets roped in, and I love how we get to know the people in the other apartments.

When I first saw "Rebecca', I had no idea what the story was about, so the twist was a real shock. And who can forget creepy Mrs Danvers standing behind the girl as she's leaning out the window and saying 'Why Don't You?'  I read the book after seeing the movie, and I also like it, though the twist is a bit different.

Now I feel like curling up for the afternoon and watching those DVDs  :D

Cheers

QQ
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 02:37:33 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2022, 02:36:57 AM »


Quote
We're also big fans of a lot of the sci-fi that's come out of Canada, like the Stargate franchise (especially Stargate Atlantis), Sanctuary, Dark Matter, Continuum and Travelers. 

Now you are talking my language, wonderful stuff.
I don't know what it says about Australia, but we have no equivalent.
No equivalent of Dr Who, Star Trek, Star Wars or any Science Fiction franchise at all.Although the last three Lucas produced Star Treks were mostly shot in Sydney. 
Dark Star was based on a Graphic Novel and Australia had one of the best Flash Gordon inspired comics, Silver Star. [Not Jack Kirby's Silver Starr] Unfortunately we don't have any examples here on CB+.
And Re Canadian-produced Science Fiction TV shows, don't forget the best Gene Roddenberry creation ever,
Andromeda.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213327/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_130

Britain does quite well with Science Fiction and co-incidentally, yesterday I picked up the DVD set of the first season of Blake's Seven - which I will be watching again.   

Cheers!


Panther, kindred sci-fi spirits indeed  :D  The only Aussie sci-fi one that springs to mind for me is 'Farscape'. We watched the first couple of seasons, and there were some good episodes, but we felt it went off the boil a bit towards the end, so didn't keep going. There was a lot of screaming and we got sick of Ben Browder's character flipping out all the time. We also caught up on some of the 'Andromeda' ones on Prime. I think we watched the whole of Season 1 and we got partway into Season 2. We liked it, but didn't love it as much as some of the others. Might get back to it at some stage. And I will never forgive the TV network that cancelled 'Dark Matter' on a cliffhanger ending to Season 3 with multiple new story threads open. Aaarrgghh! Dark Matter had initially started as a comic book, and I remember reading somewhere that the fellow behind it was thinking of maybe wrapping things up with a graphic novel, but I don't think that's been done. At least they let the 'Continuum' people do a six-parter to wrap up the story after the decision was made to cancel it.  And we love both the classic and new Dr Who. Loved Jodie as the doc, so will be interesting to see what the new guy is like (after David Tennant's three new eps. - That was a pleasant surprise!) I'd buy more of the Dr Who graphic novels if they weren't so dear.  But give me anything with Amanda Tapping -- Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Sanctuary, Travelers. She is indeed the Empress!

Cheers

QQ
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 12:53:32 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2022, 04:03:47 AM »

Since posting my comments about The Window I took K1ngcat's advice and read my first Cornell Woolrich novel. I chose Phantom Lady, and it was a humdinger! I started reading it in the bathtub and kept having to read just one more chapter. I finally finished at the book at 4 AM. Though I had a tiny inkling of "whodunnit" at the beginning, Woolrich was so skillful in redirecting my attention that I was fooled until the big reveal. It's hard to say more without giving the story away. Suffice it to say that in Phantom Lady, as in The Window, Woolrich delights in getting you to the verge of having things resolve themselves, then bang! Things are in worse shape than ever. I also found it interesting how Woolrich split the narrative up by following different characters so there was never a single "hero" per se but a group of people working toward a common goal.

Surely Phantom Lady must have been in the mind of whoever wrote "A Short Step to Oblivion" in Fawcett's Suspense Detective #1. It's in no way a knockoff of Woolrich's story, but the comic story's first half has may echoes of situations in the novel. It's worth a look. Suspense Detective was an interesting attempt at "crime" stories that focussed on suspense rather than the criminal life. But back to our regular programming.

Police Comics #6

A lot of you have already said it: "Veda the Cobra Woman" wasn't much. I don't know how the Woolrich story was, but the comic book "Veda" is little more than a diagram. Vern Henkel's layouts show a strong Eisner influence though he doesn't go in for the dramatic shadows.

The rest of the comic was a bit more interesting. Firebrand was the leader because of Reed Crandall's art. Crandall was only in his mid-twenties but he was already an anatomy master. His figures here owe a lot to Lou Fine (Crandall started out inking Fine on Iger shop projects). How odd to see a Golden Age credit for the artist who actually drew the story! I never understood Firebrand's see-through shirt. It meant extra work for the colorist and in my opinion looked silly. It did confirm that in 1942 men didn't have nipples.

In 711 George Brenner seems to be feeling some Eisner influence as well. The end result is so-so. As for the story, I just can't accept that a hero who breaks out of jail to fight crime would use as his convict number as his crime-fighting name. At least one crook seems intelligent enough to make the connection, the guy in the last panel. But he's a crook gone straight so 711's secret is safe.

One look at Dewey Dripp and I decided not to read it.

Though Eagle Evans' figures are clunky, Witmer Williams draws nice planes. I see Evans took one of the Blackhawks' Grumman Skyrockets to a chop shop and gave it a new paint job.

I never cared much for Plastic Man. Neither the character nor Jack Cole's art did much for me. This time around I found him easier to take without the constant presence of the insufferable Woozy Winks. Cole wins a prize for offbeat ideas with stealing hands that live separately from their owner. The owners of most disembodied hands are dead.

The single good thing about Super Snooper is his nickname, The Yegg Beater.

As for Steele Kerrigan, the story isn't anything special but the art is nice. Al Bryant never seems to have made waves, but he was a solid artist who turned out consistently good art for Quality comics. His Lambiek bio tells a strange story. His work at Busy Arnold's shop helped him recover from a nervous breakdown. Everyone thought he was okay until he ran his car into a bridge, apparently deliberately. He spent eight years in a hospital. When he got out he worked as a technical illustrator until his death at age 76.

The Mouthpiece is yet another guy in a blue suit, fedora, and black mask. How many of these not-Spirits were there? The story is routine GA stuff. I like Mouthy's line when he escapes onto a city rooftop: "Ah! This carbon monoxide air sure feels good!" Numerous superhero stories show the police appreciating how heroes save them work by rounding up bad guys. This is the first time I've seen someone say they're also good for the economy. Fred Guardineer's art is stiff as can be, yet over the years I've come to enjoy his work.

I admit I prefer Matt Baker's costume-bursting Phantom Lady to Art Peddy's earlier, more demure swimsuit heroine. Peddy draws well, though. Over the years his draughtsmanship improved while his storytelling style became much quieter. He was one of DC's workhorse romance comic pencillers. PL herself is one of those comic book ladies who doesn't wear a mask and doesn't change her hairstyle or hair color. Yet no one ever recognizes her as Sandra Knight, the senator's daughter. Maybe years ago in the Orient, Phantom Lady learned a strange and mysterious secret - the power to cloud men's minds so they cannot see her head. Whatever else she has, PL must have superpowered lungs if she survived a room full of mustard gas.

Berp the Twerp: WTF???

There's no danger of anyone recognizing The Human Bomb. A recent Alter Ego issue had a long, very interesting interview with Paul Gustavson's son. Gustavson (real name Paul Gustafson) worked on many, many features for Chesler, Centaur, and Quality. The majority of them he wrote, drew, and lettered by himself. After Quality sold out to DC Gustavson worked a while for ACG before changing careers and becoming a civil engineer. His art is easy on the eyes. The story is no better and no worse than other Quality superhero stories.

That's all, folks! It was a very entertaining choice of comics, and thanks again for turning me onto Cornell Woolrich.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 05:24:48 AM by crashryan »
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2022, 02:13:53 AM »



Panther, kindred sci-fi spirits indeed  :D  The only Aussie sci-fi one that springs to mind for me is 'Farscape'. We watched the first couple of seasons, and there were some good episodes, but we felt it went off the boil a bit towards the end, so didn't keep going. There was a lot of screaming and we got sick of Ben Bowden's character flipping out all the time. We also caught up on some of the 'Andromeda' ones on Prime. I think we watched the whole of Season 1 and we got partway into Season 2. We liked it, but didn't love it as much as some of the others. Might get back to it at some stage.

Cheers

QQ


Different strokes, guys. I loved Farscape and thought it got better as it went on, some particularly genre-bending episodes in the third and fourth series including the TV interview section and the deepening of the complicated relationship between Browder and Black. Scorpius goes down as one of my favourite SF villains ( so revealing that he always spoked in a strictly British accent!) Sad they had to hurry it to an end in Peacekeepers Wars.

Dr Who I adored and still do, Andromeda always seemed to disappoint me but that may have a lot to do with Kevin Sorbo who seemed to be in there more for 'hunk" value than acting ability. I've never seen Dark Matter but it sounds as if I'd like to!

I also have a soft spot for Babylon Five, but none of us are perfect. I'm just glad that TV has managed to provide some enjoyable sci-fi series to suit our diverse tastes and hope it will continue to do so.

All the best
K1ngcat
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2022, 02:40:35 AM »


Since posting my comments about The Window I took K1ngcat's advice and read my first Cornell Woolrich novel. I chose Phantom Lady, and it was a humdinger! I started reading it in the bathtub and kept having to read just one more chapter. I finally finished at the book at 4 AM. Though I had a tiny inkling of "whodunnit" at the beginning, Woolrich was so skillful in redirecting my attention that I was fooled until the big reveal. It's hard to say more without giving the story away. Suffice it to say that in Phantom Lady, as in The Window, Woolrich delights in getting you to the verge of having things resolve themselves, then bang! Things are in worse shape than ever. I also found it interesting how Woolrich split the narrative up by following different characters so there was never a single "hero" per se but a group of people working toward a common goal.

Police Comics #6

I never cared much for Plastic Man. Neither the character nor Jack Cole's art did much for me. This time around I found him easier to take without the constant presence of the insufferable Woozy Winks. Cole wins a prize for offbeat ideas with stealing hands that live separately from their owner. The owners of most disembodied hands are dead

That's all, folks! It was a very entertaining choice of comics, and thanks again for turning me onto Cornell Woolrich.


Well crash I'm glad my recommendation to Woolwich worked out for you, in my mind he is the master of that "waiting for the shoe to drop" style of suspense and I hope you have many hours of page-turning delight/horror ahead of you!

Sorry you feel that way about Plas, I admit that Cole's art and crazy story ideas were a work in progress at this stage, but the finished article remains one of my favourite comic creations. More disappointed in your view of Woozy, who I feel is my real alter ego, gluttonous, lustful, avaricious, and very fallible, yet abounding with good intentions. I don't think a more human character has ever graced the funny pages, but chacun a son gout as they say.

Stick with Woolrich though, he won't disappoint!

All the best
K1ngcat
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 01:44:25 AM by K1ngcat »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2022, 12:45:12 AM »


Since posting my comments about The Window I took K1ngcat's advice and read my first Cornell Woolrich novel. I chose Phantom Lady, and it was a humdinger! I started reading it in the bathtub and kept having to read just one more chapter. I finally finished at the book at 4 AM. Though I had a tiny inkling of "whodunnit" at the beginning, Woolrich was so skillful in redirecting my attention that I was fooled until the big reveal. It's hard to say more without giving the story away. Suffice it to say that in Phantom Lady, as in The Window, Woolrich delights in getting you to the verge of having things resolve themselves, then bang! Things are in worse shape than ever. I also found it interesting how Woolrich split the narrative up by following different characters so there was never a single "hero" per se but a group of people working toward a common goal.

Surely Phantom Lady must have been in the mind of whoever wrote "A Short Step to Oblivion" in Fawcett's Suspense Detective #1. It's in no way a knockoff of Woolrich's story, but the comic story's first half has may echoes of situations in the novel. It's worth a look. Suspense Detective was an interesting attempt at "crime" stories that focussed on suspense rather than the criminal life. But back to our regular programming.

Police Comics #6


As for Steele Kerrigan, the story isn't anything special but the art is nice. Al Bryant never seems to have made waves, but he was a solid artist who turned out consistently good art for Quality comics. His Lambiek bio tells a strange story. His work at Busy Arnold's shop helped him recover from a nervous breakdown. Everyone thought he was okay until he ran his car into a bridge, apparently deliberately. He spent eight years in a hospital. When he got out he worked as a technical illustrator until his death at age 76.

I admit I prefer Matt Baker's costume-bursting Phantom Lady to Art Peddy's earlier, more demure swimsuit heroine. Peddy draws well, though. Over the years his draughtsmanship improved while his storytelling style became much quieter. He was one of DC's workhorse romance comic pencillers. PL herself is one of those comic book ladies who doesn't wear a mask and doesn't change her hairstyle or hair color. Yet no one ever recognizes her as Sandra Knight, the senator's daughter. Maybe years ago in the Orient, Phantom Lady learned a strange and mysterious secret - the power to cloud men's minds so they cannot see her head. Whatever else she has, PL must have superpowered lungs if she survived a room full of mustard gas.

That's all, folks! It was a very entertaining choice of comics, and thanks again for turning me onto Cornell Woolrich.


Thanks for that, Crashryan. I thought the same way as you about some of the stories in 'Police Comics', like why no one recognises Phantom Lady. She must cloud men's minds indeed. And I like the later versions of her better too. I'll put my full review up on the weekend. Thanks too for the extra info about the artists.

I'm glad you were spurred on to read more Cornell Woolrich. I've only read 'It Had to be Murder', which was the inspiration for Alfred Hitchcock's 'Rear Window'. I think it was in a compilation I got from the library, so I don't have it to look back at. We have a few Pulp compilation volumes at home, and I've discovered they include four Woolrich stories, so I'll have to get cracking myself. I haven't read his Phantom Lady (not to be confused with our own Sandra Knight), but spurred on by these posts, I've ordered a copy of the DVD for part of hubby's birthday present. I'll look forward to seeing what it's like (though of course the movie doesn't always follow the story).

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2022, 12:52:57 AM »



Different strokes, guys. I loved Farscape and thought it got better as it went on, some particularly genre-bending episodes in the third and fourth series including the TV interview section and the deepening of the complicated relationship between Browder and Black. Scorpius goes down as one of my favourite SF villains ( so revealing that he always spoked in a strictly British accent!) Sad they had to hurry it to an end in Peacekeepers Wars.

Dr Who I adored and still do, Andromeda always seemed to disappoint me but that may have a lot to do with Kevin Sorbo who seemed to be in there more for 'hunk" value than acting ability. I've never seen Dark Matter but it sounds as if I'd like to!

I also have a soft spot for Babylon Five, but none of us are perfect. I'm just glad that TV has managed to provide some enjoyable sci-fi series to suit our diverse tastes and hope it will continue to do so.

All the best
K1ngcat


Thanks for that, K1ngcat. I may have given up on Farscape too soon. I did like the storyline with Browder and   Claudia Black. And it was fun when they both turned up as new characters in Seasons 9 and 10 of Stargate SG-1. Now I think of it, we must have watched into Series 3 of Farscape. I may have to go back and give it another chance.

I agree about Kevin Sorbo. I think that was the weak link for me. Pretty to look at, but not a great emotional range as an actor. I did like Lexa Doig's character. I might have to get back to it and have another look. In the 'like' rather than 'love' category for me.

And it's worth having a look at 'Dark Matter'. It starts with the premise that 6 people wake up from their cryogenic-like chambers on a spacecraft. They don't know who they are, they don't know each other, and they don't know why they're on the ship. Lots of interesting possibilities. 35 great episodes and then a final one in which you pull your hair out because it finishes on a cliffhanger with lots of story threads open! There should be a law against it  :D

Cheers

QQ
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 12:55:03 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2022, 01:35:44 AM »

Hi everyone

Thanks for all of the interaction in the last couple of weeks. I've learned a lot from you all and have wandered down some interesting side roads. So here are some of my thoughts about the selections. I'll do the Woolrich stories first and then the rest of Police Comics separately.

THE WINDOW AND KISS OF THE COBRA

I hadn't read the originals for either of these, and I haven't seen the movie of The Window, apart from the few film clips I found on YouTube. I really liked The Window. It was good to read a full-length story so that the characters and plot had time to develop. I think whoever wrote the adaptation did a pretty good job in building the tension. I felt like yelling 'No' when the mother took the boy upstairs to apologise to the killers. As the comic seems to be based on the movie, rather than the original story, they may well have used some of the actual dialogue from the movie. Without having read the original, it's hard to know what may have been changed. I thought the art was also pretty good, though as someone else mentioned, the colour scheme didn't quite give that noir feel.

The panels in the taxi scene were interesting. The bad guy clearly punches the boy to keep him quiet, and although the wife obscures him a little, you can still see his fist suspended in the air. The bad guy then tells the taxi driver he’s fallen asleep. The taxi driver replies with, ‘ Yeah … ain’t that just like a kid?’ So was the taxi driver deaf as well as blind? In the film clip I found on YouTube, the boy is dealt with much more quietly and out of view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntoZsumz1gg

I also liked the fact that the story was in chapters, like a regular book. The whole thing was short enough to read in one sitting, but you could also dip in and out if you wanted to. All in all, I did enjoy this comic and it made me want to watch the movie.

The Kiss of the Cobra is an interesting idea, but suffers from the short length. The detective's reveal at the end was good, but it was a bit of an information dump. The art is okay, but the ‘young’ Peter Kane certainly looks old. Has anyone read the original story? It would be interesting to know how much was changed for this outing. Also a shame that original writers weren't credited for stories like this back in the day, though I guess the pulps were probably used for a lot of the crime comics, either as adaptations or just as springboards for ideas.

The stories as a whole did inspire me to look into some of Woolrich's original stories.

POLICE COMICS

The Firebrand

A fun romp, with an interesting superhero and sidekicks. The action kept it pumping. Though I did wonder how he suddenly produced a flaming torch after pushing the hospital trolley. I’m not familiar with Firebrand. Can he produce fire? And what’s with the see-through shirt? Nearly as good as Colin Firth’s wet shirt in Pride and Prejudice.

711

Lots of plot holes for me in this one. If 711 is in jail, how does he manage to keep his costume and boat secret??

Dewey Drip

Well, the humour in this one has certainly dated. But would it have even been funny back in the day?

Eagle Evans

Not the kind of story that appeals to me, but it had some good art, especially regarding the technical aspects of the aircraft and the fight scenes. And Snap sure managed to develop that film quickly.

Plastic Man

Well, that was interesting. I’ve never read a Plastic Man comic before. It was sort of funny, but also kind of macabre with the “crook’ being the cursed severed hands of some poor guy chained up in a cellar. Plastic Man freed him from the curse by throwing the hands into a furnace, but the poor guy was still left handless. On another note, it was interesting having Plastic Man turn to the readers to ask for help in increasing the length of the feature. I looked at a later copy and saw that they did increase the length of the Plastic Man stories, so I guess it worked.

Super Snooper

Funny one-page gag that still kind of works, though pretty corny.

Steele Kerrigan

Fairly standard tale with an innocent ex-inmate helping police round up some crooks. I liked the way Anne got in on the action too, but how did Steele know that tank contained acetylene and that shooting it would have the desired effect without endangering him too? Probably not something to try at home. Also a subtle (or not so subtle?) billboard ad in one of the panels encouraging readers to buy defense bonds and stamps. Well, it was 1942!

The Mouthpiece

A District Attorney in a domino mask? As SuperScrounge said, it’s not much of a disguise, especially as he’s wearing exactly the same clothes he was wearing at the office. At least Barbara Gordon changed into her Batgirl outfit before being called the Domino Doll. I liked the way he tricked the rats into chewing through his ropes, though the bad guy accidentally hacking another crim with an axe was a bit on the bloodthirsty side. Okay, but not the most riveting of stories or heroes.

Blood Will Tell

Short-story about the power of auto-suggestion. I must admit, I got a bit confused by this one. When I got to the end, I had to skim back over the story to see if I missed something. I’m not sure auto-suggestion works quite that well, and if it did, would confessions gained that way be admissible in court?

There were some inaccuracies regarding the Australian aspects of the story, but I’ve already mentioned those in another post.

Phantom Lady

In the first panel, it says ‘Phantom Lady is never suspected of being Senator Knight’s daughter Sandra, even when she fights before his eyes’. I take it he’s blind then, especially as she doesn’t even wear a mask!!

I’ve read a couple of the other Phantom Lady comics on this site from a later period, and I like the art on those ones better. The cheekbone lines in this one make her look like she’s sucking lemons. That aside, what a gal. Not only can she kick butt and do wonders with her black light, but she can fly an autogiro. I’m glad she had another life beyond this comic.

Burp the Twerp

Not a bad one-page gag for the time, but it's pretty corny now.

The Human Bomb

I haven’t come across this hero before and I enjoyed it. Interesting superpower. At the end, his alter-ego Roy persuades Jean that she wouldn’t have a future with the human bomb because if he touched her, she’d explode. But how does Roy stop from hurting her? Does he always have his hands covered? And how come he doesn’t blow himself up? Maybe this is explained in other stories.

Overall, I liked some of the stories in this comic, and would probably try more of these. Though there are so many comics I want to read on this site, that it would be lower down on my list.

Cheers

QQ

« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 01:38:34 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2022, 06:42:22 AM »

Kiss of The Cobra
This story suffers from the most common problem with dividing 52 or 36-page comic books into several short stories.  As others have stated above, at 6 pages, it is much, much, much too short to have room to develop the main characters, introduce the setting in a natural way, pace the story at a logical and adequate pacing rate, to build up adequate suspense in a manner that will allow the reader to experience the tension and angst of the story's protagonist. 

I think it is an interesting idea to have a villain who has a connection to a deadly, venomous animal, and uses that venom as a weapon to murder people.  But, as usual, trying to take a story idea with a scope that requires a LOT more than even every page of one 68-page comic book, and cram a cut-down plot to highlights only, and not leaving enough room to lay out a climax and satisfying story ending, but rather, throwing the results of the climax at the reader, at the story's end, as if to say, "Sorry, but we ran out of space - Here is the bottom line of how things ended!", is an insult to the author's vision, and the readers.

And, not that it matters, as not even classic top-notch artwork could make reading the story worthwhile, but the story's artwork is somewhat crude, and not very memorable.  Even a 66 page comic book version of such a great story idea wouldn't do a book or novelette, or even long, short story justice, but, for comic book fans, would have been a lot nicer than its published format.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2022, 12:01:49 PM »


I’m not familiar with Firebrand. Can he produce fire?

I don't believe he ever had superpowers, but his sister...  ;)

In the 1980s Roy Thomas did the book All Star Squadron which utilized DC & Quality's various WWII heroes and he invented a never before seen sister of Rod (Firebrand) Reilly, Danette Reilly who coincidentally had fire powers, who took on his name and costume (with an opaque top under the transparent shirt). What puzzles me is that I believe Quality did have a gal who used fire called Wildfire, but I'm not sure why Roy didn't use her.

And what’s with the see-through shirt?

After taking on the identity they did have Danette question Rod about the transparent shirt, but I don't think they gave an answer.

I’ve read a couple of the other Phantom Lady comics on this site from a later period, and I like the art on those ones better. [snip] I’m glad she had another life beyond this comic.

Kind of interesting that. I believe she was created by the Eisner-Iger Shop for Quality and didn't seem to take off and her first run ended. A few years later the Iger Shop (Eisner had left) was producing comics for Fox and he produced new adventures of Phantom Lady, in a later interview Jerry Iger claimed he had kept the rights to the character. I don't think Quality cared since there was no lawsuit, so... okay. In the 1970s DC decided to revive a few of the Quality characters as the Freedom Fighters and Phantom Lady was one of them (as was the Human Bomb, and toward the end of the run a revived Firebrand). Bill Black of AC Comics tried to revive the Fox version of Phantom Lady, but didn't want to go up against DC's lawyers and I believe renamed that version the Blue Bulleteer. So she's had a few revivals through the years.
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2022, 03:29:02 PM »

Firebrand never appeared to have powers in Police Comics.  But I wonder where he kept his "Flaming Torch of Justice"
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2022, 11:08:54 PM »

Quote
In the 1980s Roy Thomas did the book All Star Squadron which utilized DC & Quality's various WWII heroes


In many ways I like Roy Thomas work but in many ways I don't.
That was a book that didn't do it for me.
He didn't find it easy balancing his need to be a biographer/ encyclopedist with the ability to write good action stories.
The pinnacle of his work for me was the Origins of the Vision and YellowJacket. I could hold those up to a budding comic creator as excellent examples of what to do right. Read them many times.
But he introduced the habit of footnotes to comics and well overdid it. And that is just not good writing.
His AllStar Squadron was, for me, a mess - too many characters, barely explored and only there because they were Golden age characters Roy wanted to write. In addition, I am very visual and the artists on that, while not bad artists, were also limited by Roy's scripts, which by that time, did not centre on action. I found the books too wordy and dull - and didn't find myself becoming interested in the characters and wanting to see more of them. And I didn't continue reading the book.
Not the case for Vision and Yellowjacket.
Since I'm on the subject, it's clear to me that Roy went out of his way to imitate Stan Lee - slavishly - in his writing in his early days at Marvel, but later became more himself in style.
I once went to a con solely to ask Roy one question, which I did, because it had bugged me for years.
Essentially, I asked him, why, when out of nowhere in the middle of the Kree-Skrull war story in the Avengers, he had Golden-age characters coming out of Rick Jones head- he didn't realize the potential of that and build something out of it.
When I read that originally I though - Why? How? Has Rick Jones got the power to bring characters from the past by his imagination, something like Kid Eternity? If so, do they remember that and set out to find out what happened? Or can he create physical facsimiles out of his imagination? Certainly, this was never followed up by anyone, ever.
Seems that Roy, in the middle of that story just had an urge to use some Golden age characters and so he did. What does it say about me that it irritated me so much that he never followed through with it? You decide.     
We had a quick talk in a signing session but I didn't get much of an answer. Nice guy tho.
But, the fact that he created that out of left-field scene, for me, clearly indicated where his real passion was.                   
 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 11:25:46 PM by The Australian Panther »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2022, 12:10:08 AM »

QQ wrote,

Quote
The Window

The Window (1950) is an adaptation of the RKO movie of the same name, which was in turn based on a story by Woolrich. It takes up most of the comic book and includes brief bios of Woolrich and Bobby Driscoll, the boy who starred in the movie.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=23425 

Well, clearly I have navigated the comic book section of CB+ substantially as my fingerprints are all over it.
But I do like to point out good things to members .   
So, to the book.
This series only went to 13, or at least there only #13 posted on CB+.

The idea of adapting books to comics has been tried several times, not always successfully.
There are an interesting variety of books selected in this series. Not all would have been PD at the time.

I like the cover design on these.
The information on the inner cover is relevant and appreciated.
One of the best art jobs by H. C. Kiefer that I've seen. I think he really enjoyed himself.
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/k/kiefer_hc.htm
and also
https://pulpartists.com/Kiefer.html
The construction of the narrative is unorthodox, in that quoting Aesop's fable on page one, makes what is going to happen obvious. But the tale is told effectively, Kiefer draws the child well as a sympathetic character and the story is paced well to build up the suspense. The danger the child is in and the sense of isolation he has - being disbelieved, being locked in his room, is very effectively conveyed visually.
Given the story is told in only 45 pages, it's full marks to the writer and the artist for  me!
Not an easy thing to accomplish.
Cheers!
Thank you QQ for giving me the chance to appreciate this book again.
 
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2022, 12:31:30 AM »

QQ wrote,
Quote
Police Comics #6

This issue of Police Comics from 1942 contains an adaptation of Woolrich’s story Kiss of the Cobra. It’s the Chic Carter story that starts on p. 26. Feel free to just read that one story or dip into the rest of the comic book for a mixed bag of varying genres and quality. You’ll find crimefighters and superheroes like Firebrand, Plastic Man, Phantom Lady, detective and military stories, as well as humour. Hopefully you’ll find something of interest there.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19823 


I going to confine myself to reviewing the 'Cobra' story.

And not much to say about it really. I can't compare it to the original but it strikes me that there is a clear parallel with 'The Window'.
In both stories the main character witnesses a murder, is not believed, can't prove his story and is isolated and alone and in danger till the resolution.
What this says about Woolrich’s state of mind, I will leave up to the experts.
The ending in the comic is unsatisfying and unrealistic in that, if she kills herself after a confession and there is no witness, he is still in a lot of trouble.
One of the pursuers should have been shown to have entered at the moment of the confession.
Anyway, overall I enjoyed it. 

New choices tomorrow, think we are in for an early Christmas.
Cheers!       


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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2022, 08:04:42 AM »

Thanks for all of those extra details everyone. I'm really enjoying learning from your collective wisdom. I'm glad this fortnight's choices got some interesting discussions going, and now I have even more rabbit holes to explore.  :D
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #284 Cornell Woolrich stories
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2022, 10:40:50 AM »


QQ wrote,
Quote
Police Comics #6

This issue of Police Comics from 1942 contains an adaptation of Woolrich’s story Kiss of the Cobra. It’s the Chic Carter story that starts on p. 26. Feel free to just read that one story or dip into the rest of the comic book for a mixed bag of varying genres and quality. You’ll find crimefighters and superheroes like Firebrand, Plastic Man, Phantom Lady, detective and military stories, as well as humour. Hopefully you’ll find something of interest there.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19823 


I going to confine myself to reviewing the 'Cobra' story.

And not much to say about it really. I can't compare it to the original but it strikes me that there is a clear parallel with 'The Window'.
In both stories the main character witnesses a murder, is not believed, can't prove his story and is isolated and alone and in danger till the resolution.
What this says about Woolrich’s state of mind, I will leave up to the experts.
The ending in the comic is unsatisfying and unrealistic in that, if she kills herself after a confession and there is no witness, he is still in a lot of trouble.
One of the pursuers should have been shown to have entered at the moment of the confession.
Anyway, overall I enjoyed it. 

New choices tomorrow, think we are in for an early Christmas.
Cheers!       


I Agree.  That would have worked a lot better. 
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