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Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22  (Read 374 times)

Robb_K

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Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« on: October 28, 2024, 07:07:29 AM »

Good morning everyone!  This Fortnight's read and review books are 2 of the earliest MLJ/Archie Series-related books from the beginning of The 1940s, both are heavily Superhero and Action/Adventure-based, with Pep 22 (December 1941) having a little more variety of genres than the first Zip Comic (February 1940), including the first appearance of an "Archie" comedy story. Both books originally contained 68 pages, which was quite a bargain for 10 cents.  We got the Zip #1 in Canada, but not Pep #22, because Canada's ban on imported Comic Books from The USA started near the beginning of 1941.  So, we probably had Zip 1 in our family's stash (library) of comic books, the earliest of which were bought by my older cousins.  The ban ended in 1946. I decided that I didn't like Superhero stories much, but I did like some of the detective, mystery, science fiction, fantasy, and western, as well as much of the comedy stories of that period and the later '40s.  We have some stories of those other genres in Pep 22.

Zip Comics 1 (1940)
This started as one of MLJ's early Superhero-and Action/Adventure Themed Books. Later in its run it added stories from some other genres, including comedy, becoming more of a "mixed bag" publication.  This issue featured Steel Sterling, The Scarlet Avenger, Nevada Jones, Kalthar of The Jungle, The Devil's Flying Twins, The Pirates of Ho Tsin(Captain Valor), Mr. Satan, and Zambini, The Miracle Man.  This seems to be the first comic book series we've reviewed that stats with the letter Zed (Z).


Zip Comics 1 can be found here:  https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=22161


Pep Comics 22 (1941)
With this issue, Pep Comics, started adding other genres to this publication, with Archie, their first comedy feature.  Other features included are: The Shield, The Hangman, Spumoni The Puppet Master, Sergeant Boyle, The Sky Pirates, Kayo Ward, and Detective Bentley.


Pep Comics 22 can be found here:   https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=22211


I didn't see more than a couple artist or writer credits for either book, so I'll leave it to you Superhero/Action-Adventure- based comics experts to identify the artists and writers for us  (At least the most noteworthy ones - as many as you can).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 01:51:01 AM by Robb_K »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2024, 07:10:26 AM »

Thanks Robb. Looks like quite a variety in there. I'll look forward to reading them.

Cheers

QQ
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2024, 09:03:08 AM »

Robb;- "Wot she said!"

cheers!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2024, 06:22:31 AM »

Zip Comics #1

Steel Sterling
Nice of that steam to cover his naughty bits.  ;)

Eastern Printing's Man O'Metal also gained power from molten metal although I think his origin was accidental.

Steel doesn't appear to be drawn holding the machine gun at an angle that implies shooting to frighten.

Why would Steel take a motorcycle when he could fly?

Not the most original story.  ;)


Mugsy
Cute.


The Scarlet Avenger
Any resemblance of the name to DC's Crimson Avenger is strictly coincidental.  ;)

So this is what Mike Brady did before marrying the widow Carol.  ;)

I hope that Morgan farm wasn't in Pemberton, New Jersey!  :o


Nevada Jones
Indiana's uncle?  ;)

So basically he's a one-man posse? Should have had him working with some others and maybe a few scenes to make the attraction between Nevada & Irene feel more natural.


Kalthar
Ehh. Not much.


The Devil Twins
Did they still use biplanes in WWII?

I would guess the writer was not a pilot, nor even knew a pilot.


You Can't Win!
Interesting.


Captain Valor
Ehh.


Mr. Satan
Nothing special.


Sport-O-Grams
Artist of DC's Wildcat and later on the artist of the comic strip Dondi.


Zambini
The hero who coats the rink with ice.  ;)

How would the cobra know the way to the spy headquarters? It was carried with a hood over its head.

If Zambini loses his power at a person's touch then how can he hold the shrunken people?

The big problem with magic heroes tends to be that they can use any power the plot requires.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2024, 06:25:50 AM »

This seems to be the first comic book series we've reviewed that stats with the letter Zed (Z).

Yep.

Just Q & X to go. ;-)
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2024, 04:55:56 AM »

Scrounge said>
Quote
Did they still use biplanes in WWII?

I was going to say yes, as training aircraft, before that was verified by this video.
Quote
Why Were There Still Biplanes During WWII?   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMmHNhK3m8

Actually, they were still using horse-drawn carts in some places in WWII.
I went through Poland by train in 1977 and saw quite a few horse-drawn carts. With pneumatic tires though!

cheers! 
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2024, 05:38:46 AM »


Scrounge said>
Quote
Did they still use biplanes in WWII?

I was going to say yes, as training aircraft, before that was verified by this video.
Quote
Why Were There Still Biplanes During WWII?   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMmHNhK3m8

Actually, they were still using horse-drawn carts in some places in WWII.
I went through Poland by train in 1977 and saw quite a few horse-drawn carts. With pneumatic tires though!

cheers!


As far as I remember, The Poles, and Greeks had biplanes at the start of WWII, but The German bombers destroyed all of them on the ground in pre-emptive strikes. The Italians had some, as well.  The Germans and French still used horses for some of their transport in 1939 and 1940.  I think The Chinese had some biplanes too.  As to why the poor countries still had outmoded aircraft..... I think it was partly that they were still recovering from WWI, and didn't want to spend the money to upgrade, especially as most European countries were not fully recovered from the economic losses in The First War, and the Worldwide Depression, and couldn't afford to spend that money, and also didn't expect to need the upgrade so soon, as they didn't expect a major war, involving their countries, to break out so soon as 1939.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2024, 05:44:39 AM by Robb_K »
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2024, 07:18:59 AM »

Scrounge said>
Quote
Did they still use biplanes in WWII?

I was going to say yes, as training aircraft, before that was verified by this video.
Quote
Why Were There Still Biplanes During WWII?   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMmHNhK3m8

Interesting.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2024, 12:28:29 AM »

Pep Comics #22

Shield with Dusty
"Blankety blank"???  :o I'm shocked! Shocked that a magazine for children would use such filthy language! My goodness, there should be a comics code to regulate these filth mongers!!!  ;)
There are so many better ways to imply curse words. "What the..." or $#@^&*!, or the scribbled out words approach, or even just don't say anything.

Does the Shield pay the repair cost for that safety ladder he ripped out of the building? Let's hope nobody needs that ladder before it's replaced.

Massacre? Just what did the Shield do to those crooks?  ;)

Amnesia almost seemed like a subplot too many, like the writer couldn't think of a good way to have Mamie see Hernandez and tip off the Shield about it without realizing what's going on if he was trying to escape the spies.


The Hangman
So Lennie was swiped from The Grapes of Wrath?

Is it just me or did it just seem like this was just a way to wrap up the Unholy Three story without any larger story going on?


Danny In Wonderland
Eh, okay, I guess.


Sergeant Boyle
Gee, what realism. *rolls eyes*


Jolly Roger
Oh, I can't wait to see what the Australian readers think of the Australian character here.  ;)

Okay but nothing special. I was kind of expecting a bunch of stereotype speaking of the different men from different countries, but only Price the Scotsman seemed to fill that role. I didn't see one 'hip hip cheerio' or 'strewth' in the story.  ;)


Archie
A kid's humor comic? It'll never last.  ;)

Joking aside I never found the 1940s Archie stories to be that funny. They have the elements of funny, but rarely do I laugh at them. So it's really odd that of all the features MLJ had this was the star they hitched their wagon too. Personally I find the late '50s/early '60s to be their funniest time period, but your mileage may vary.

As a first story it's interesting for the differences to later stories. Archie & the gang (all three of them) seem maybe early teens rather than mid-teens that later stories would go with. Although early teens does fit Jughead's woman-hating better than mid-teens as puberty hasn't kicked in for him yet. Betty's parents are drawn to more like grandparents than parents. Grandpa Andrews tended to be dropped for most later stories. A dog accompanies Archie, although it doesn't resemble the later Oscar, or even Spotty (retroactively created to be the dog of Little Archie). What is it with the creators thinking Archie needs a dog? Hot Dog started off as Archie's dog before TPTB realized Hot Dog worked better with Jughead, and more recently they've given him a dog named Vegas. Archie's 'harem' of girls should be enough for plot generation, he really doesn't need a dog for that.


Kayo Ward
Eh, okay, I guess.


Bentley of Scotland Yard
The killer was blatantly obvious.

So how much work did Foxleigh go to just to get Stonebrook's land? I mean he would have had the parts to build the serpent. He would have had to dig a hole in the bottom of the lake to set up the serpent. That would have taken time and money. You'd think he could have built and sold carnival attractions or movie props, rather than just wasting all that time and effort just to get land.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2024, 05:39:01 AM »

Zip Comics 1   https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=22161

Interestingly, I have been looking at early MLJ books recently too.
It becomes clear, looking at the CB+ archives, that there are stages that the industry went through in the US.
The attitudes of the publishers was a strong factor.
At first they are just filling up the  books with product, as quickly and cheaply as possible. And the books are anthologies of varied material. Only gradually do we see the emergence of regular characters, some of whom eventually  get their own books. Also we see the gradually emerging maturity of the artists and writers.

So, what do we have here?
An Anthology, with a superhero headlining.
Steel Stirling, 'Man of Steel'. hmm, that sounds familiar.
Pretty ridiculous origin. And how comfortable (and inconvenient) are steel pants?
A radio that that picks up messages on the police band, would have been high-tech at that time.
Why didn't Steel 'magnetize himself to the plane' earlier and prevent the getaway?
The Scarlet Avenger.
I think this guy is something of a 'Shadow' clone. Which is why it's curious that his costume is similar to the one MLJ gave 'The Shadow' in the terrible revival they attempted in the early 60's. There is an artist's signature on the Splash but it's illegible. 
Nevada Jones
Nice Art.
Average story for the period, including the 'Aw Shucks' way he holds his hat in the last panel as he turns the Heroines offer down.
KALTHAR. A giant white man among normal sized Africans. [ Actually, Yellow]Does that define 'White Privilege?'  I jest.
War Eagles.
Obviously early in the war, since they are Americans who have to join the British Air Force.

I like the colouring job.
Average story. I'm not hanging out for the next episode.   

As a general rule, I don't review Text pieces.
Captain Valor
Very early MORT MESKIN
A hardboiled adventurer who resigned his commission in the Marines to seek adventure.
An American 'Bulldog Drummond'?  His Character is identical to Bulldog.
Mr Satan.
No Origin. He is already 'Mr Satan' (The dangerous Devil}  before the story starts.
Terrible Costume.
Sport-o- grams
Excellent art
The Miracle Man
Quote
   Nice Caniff-ish artwork by Elmer Wexler on "Zambini." 

Agreed.
Generic Narrative though.



 
       




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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2024, 06:03:04 AM »

Panther, the signature on The Scarlet Avenger is that of the legendary Irving M. 'Irv' Novick. Just getting started on a long career!
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2024, 01:49:25 AM »

Hi everyone

Sorry I'm a bit slow to the party this time. Had a deadline through the week, so I've only had a chance to read a couple of the stories. Hope to get to the other comic later today.

Zip #1

Cover - Action-packed, with Steel Sterling single-handedly winning the war, while bullets bounced off him a la Superman. May have appealed to fans of the other Man of Steel.

Steel Sterling

Bit of a back story dump on p. 1. Would have been better to let the story play out and for the back story to emerge. His chemical experiments and diving into a vat of molten metal are definitely in the category of  'Don't try this at home'.  And yes, SuperScrounge, it was lucky that cloud of steam covered his naughty bits. Though even if he rubbed the special chemicals all over himself, would all of his bits and pieces still work after diving into a vat of molten steel? Perhaps we can leave that as a rhetorical question  ;) And how did he coat his eyes with the chemicals so they wouldn't be affected when he dove into the vat? Again, don't try this at home, kids!

As with some of the other comics from this age, the narration boxes at the bottom can sometimes cause you to read things out of order (e.g., times when the narration needs to go before the dialogue).

Why is the Black Knight dressed in brown and yellow? Or does black refer to his evil intent rather than the colour of his costume?

Why did the writer or letterer feel he had to write 'RATS' next to a picture of a rat, especially just after the Black Knight had mentioned rats?

Why did Steel take off with a motorcycle? So it's okay to steal a police motorcycle if you're on the side of the law?

A few holes in this one and a poor cousin to Superman, but could develop into a decent strip. According to the 'Public Domain Super Heroes' site, he was in Zip Comics #1-47, Jackpot Comics #1-9 and Roly Poly Comics #10, so he must have had some ongoing appeal.


Mugsy

Poor Mugsy. He was only doing what he was meant to do. I hope he had some fun stories after this one.


The Scarlet Avenger

The flame over the first narration box makes the print a bit hard to see. Unfortunate, as that is important backstory.

The phone vid would have been a brilliant piece of technology. I remember watching The Jetsons as a kid and thinking how fantastic it would be to talk on the video phone they used in that. As an eight-year-old, I just couldn't imagine a world in which that kind of technology would be possible. Strangely, I had no problem believing men could walk on the moon, but the video phone was in another league!

On the second page, I did wonder why the Scarlet Avenger was sitting on a throne with a skull above it. Shades of the Phantom's skull cave? But why oh why?

Another great invention turns up in the form of the hypnosis machine. What will the Scarlet Avenger invent next? He's a regular Inspector Gadget.

I liked the fact that he had a female operative and there was some good art work. For me, he might turn out to be a better super hero than Steel Sterling, though apparently he only lasted 17 issues in Zip Comics.

I was going to read 'Nevada Jones', but it didn't bode well that he had to shoot his horse on p. 1. Probably not for me.

Cheers

QQ


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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2024, 07:10:07 AM »

QQ posted,
Quote
Why did Steel take off with a motorcycle? So it's okay to steal a police motorcycle if you're on the side of the law? 

I  think I have only seen this done in a couple of dozen movies and TV episodes.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2024, 07:41:46 AM »


QQ posted,
Quote
Why did Steel take off with a motorcycle? So it's okay to steal a police motorcycle if you're on the side of the law? 

I  think I have only seen this done in a couple of dozen movies and TV episodes.


True, but he seemed to do this at the end when the case was over. He didn't seem to be borrowing it to hurtle after the baddies. Or maybe I missed something - LOL

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2024, 07:47:29 AM »


Pep Comics #22

Archie
A kid's humor comic? It'll never last.  ;)

Joking aside I never found the 1940s Archie stories to be that funny. They have the elements of funny, but rarely do I laugh at them. So it's really odd that of all the features MLJ had this was the star they hitched their wagon too. Personally I find the late '50s/early '60s to be their funniest time period, but your mileage may vary.

As a first story it's interesting for the differences to later stories. Archie & the gang (all three of them) seem maybe early teens rather than mid-teens that later stories would go with. Although early teens does fit Jughead's woman-hating better than mid-teens as puberty hasn't kicked in for him yet. Betty's parents are drawn to more like grandparents than parents. Grandpa Andrews tended to be dropped for most later stories. A dog accompanies Archie, although it doesn't resemble the later Oscar, or even Spotty (retroactively created to be the dog of Little Archie). What is it with the creators thinking Archie needs a dog? Hot Dog started off as Archie's dog before TPTB realized Hot Dog worked better with Jughead, and more recently they've given him a dog named Vegas. Archie's 'harem' of girls should be enough for plot generation, he really doesn't need a dog for that.



It was interesting to think how Archie evolved from this first issue. A few of the elements are there, so I'm glad they stuck with it so that it developed into the juggernaut it still is (Or is that Jughead-a-naut?) And I thought the parents were also drawn a bit too much like grandparents, especially Mom. Though this sort of answers the perennial question over whether Archie should end up with Betty or Veronica. Betty was his first love, so it has to be her! And I agree it's not as rip-snortingly funny as they promised, but enough people must have liked it at the time for it to continue.

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2024, 08:08:27 AM »

Pep Comics #22

I was mainly interested in this one because of the first appearance of Archie. Well, it was meagre beginnings, but he's still going strong today both as Classic Archie and as the new incarnations. My local comic book store still stocks them and I've bought a few Archie comics in recent years--some from the 70s but a few new ones too. So I guess that makes me a fan.

https://archiecomics.com/

If you haven't done so, it's worth reading the publisher's letter in the front of the book: 'In these grim times we all feel the need for something to laugh at. Something that will take our minds off the troublesome things going on all about us. That is why we put a feature like ARCHIE in this issue of PEP COMICS' etc.

Although the date on this comic is Dec 1941, it would have been in production before then and they couldn't have known that Pearl Harbor was just around the corner. So maybe Archie was the right comic at the right time. It wasn't quite the rib-tickler they promised in that letter, and I did wonder why it appeared so late in the book if it was their new big thing. But interesting to see how it got it's start.

SuperScrounge has already pointed out some of the similarities and differences. Only Archie, Betty and Jughead in this one. Interesting that Jughead is still wearing that little crown-like hat even today, and he hasn't yet developed his hamburger obsession. Archie's clumsiness and knack for inadvertently getting into trouble has been there since Day 1. And when is he going to ditch the Veronica of later comics and realise that Betty is his one true love? Yes, I'm Team Betty all the way!

I wonder why they felt the need to give him the nickname of Chick when Archie is already an abbreviation of Archibald? Also interesting that he has a copy of 'How to Make Friends and Influence People' in his back pocket. I checked and it came out in 1936, so would have been a popular book at the time.

The narration box at the end is a bit over the top, even for 1940s humour. Were people really having trouble catching their breath and having tears rolling down their faces because it was so hilarious?

Interesting to see how the Archie juggernaut started from such humble beginnings.  It was my favourite comic when I was around the 10-13 year-old mark and I still get nostalgic when I see them. One of my friends had three older siblings, and they let me borrow Archie comics from their huge stash. And just in the last year, I bought a T-shirt from Red Bubble with the Archie band on the front.

So long live Archie and the gang!

Cheers

QQ
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2024, 10:41:34 PM »

Interesting that Jughead is still wearing that little crown-like hat even today

That kind of hat is called a Jaghead. It was made by kids of that era when they would get their dads old hand me down hats and they would cut the brim to make the points. Why they did that, I'm not sure, but it was a fad at the time. Nowadays I think the artists just draw it like it was made that way instead of being a cut up hat.

Also interesting that he has a copy of 'How to Make Friends and Influence People' in his back pocket. I checked and it came out in 1936, so would have been a popular book at the time.

Yeah, of course he's also planning to use the book to soften the blow when he gets spanked, so there's a bit of irony at play as well.  ;)


Years ago I heard Archie was inspired by the Henry Aldrich radio show, although I've only heard that from 1 source whereas most other sources list the Andy Hardy movies. *shrug* Although whatever the inspiration Bob Montana based a bunch of Archie stuff on his childhood, his friends, and town. The S sweater Jughead wears was based on a sweater worn by students of the Squirrel Hill school, one of the schools in the area where Bob Montana grew up. In comic several different explanations have been made for the S sweater.

And while I made a big deal about Archie and dogs, at the time of this story Archie represented an all-American boy and most boys had dogs. The idea that Archie would evolve into a comic redheaded Casanova and have a 'harem' of girls around him probably would have been laughed at as a stupid idea.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2024, 03:18:45 AM »

ZIP COMICS Is it my imagination or have we seen The Great Zambini before? The issue wasn’t BAD but not that GREAT either. Maybe read every other story all the way through. Would have loved it as a kid.

PEP COMICS  I never get over the LOOK of pre-historic Archie. The love child of Andy Hardy and Howdy Doody. Jughead hasn’t changed THAT MUCH relatively speaking. Betty is totally a different person. It IS interesting to see what caught on and what didn’t though. Shield with Dusty the Spectacular Boy Detective?

Hey, do they still MAKE blue prints? Hadn’t even thought about them in a long time
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2024, 04:00:28 AM »

Pep Comics 22 (1941)
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=22211

It's causing me no end of amusement that we are spending a considerable amount of time discussing ARCHIE, even though we cannot post much Archie here on CB+.
You never know where the Reading Group thread will take you.
The cover - like many at the time - is basically an editorial war cartoon.
Shield and Dusty
'The spectacular boy detective?!'
Dusty does a Robin act with the corny jokes during the fight.
Irv Novick's work makes this story live.
Not bad.
The Hangman
How many times did heroes get hit on the head and concussed during the golden age.
Hey, Editor, here's an idea - an older generation hero who has Alzheimer's disease.
Obviously part of a continued serial, so it's a little hard to follow.
Lenny? Echoes of ' Of mice and men.' ?
Danny in wonderland
This is a fairly scary story for children.
So, not really apt to finish it with, 'Follow the hilarious adventures of ........'
Also, since Kuppies actiions helped them find the kidnapped children,
Why tell him, 
'As for you Kuppie, 'Next time you will do as I tell you' ?
SGT Boyle
They are in Lisbon, on the way to Iraq and they take a little side trip to France.
Amazing what kind of travelling you can do at the stroke of a pen.
Jolly Roger

The air battles graphically depict the chaos. The poetry makes me groan.

fun.
Archie.
Is this actually the very first Archie story? Anybody know?
They are clearly much younger here than they are currently depicted.
We think of them as the final class in highschool, pre- adults. Here, if they are in high school, they are freshmen.
The 'Clumsy' Archie is right there from the beginning.
Quote
And when is he going to ditch the Veronica of later comics and realize that Betty is his one true love? Yes, I'm Team Betty all the way!     
 
Yes, me too. The most improbable element in the Archie universe is the friendship between Betty and Veronica. But despite her lack of money, Betty mostly comes out on top.
The Case of Crummy King
Nicely told little story in 6 pages.       
Bentley
Lake Monster and a murder mystery. 
Guest post tomorrow, and something completely different .
cheers!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 09:23:22 AM by The Australian Panther »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2024, 08:36:30 AM »


Interesting that Jughead is still wearing that little crown-like hat even today

That kind of hat is called a Jaghead. It was made by kids of that era when they would get their dads old hand me down hats and they would cut the brim to make the points. Why they did that, I'm not sure, but it was a fad at the time. Nowadays I think the artists just draw it like it was made that way instead of being a cut up hat.



Thanks for that, SuperScrounge. I never knew that. My first experience of the Archie comics was in the early 1970s, so I had no idea why Jughead was wearing that hat. I think they did make it look a bit more like a crown, or that's what it looked like to me. Like in this pic  :)

https://archiecomics.com/characters/jughead-jones/

And yes, it's interesting to see how the characters evolved and what they kept and tossed out.

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2024, 08:41:04 AM »

Morgus said:

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PEP COMICS  I never get over the LOOK of pre-historic Archie. The love child of Andy Hardy and Howdy Doody.


LOL - That's exactly what he looks like in the early comics. He evolved into cute Archie in the 1970s comics and he's drop-dead gorgeous in the re-imagined graphic novels of the 2010s (but still a klutz!).

Panther said:

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It's causing me no end of amusement that we are spending a considerable amount of time discussing ARCHIE, even though we cannot post much Archie here on CB+.


You can blame me for starting the Archie thread. But I thought it was interesting that it was his first appearance and he's still going strong today. Still a fan  :D

Cheers

QQ



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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2024, 11:07:54 AM »

Zip Comics 1 (1940)

(1) Steel Sterling - Man of Steel
This story has a LOT of problems, in my capacity as a story editor and storywriter.  I understand that kids want to be entertained by fantastic happenings they could imagine, but are so fantastic they wouldn't have thought of  how it would manifest itself, at least in detail.  And they wouldn't be entertained as much by true stories of the real World, especially during a hellish World War with so many people being killed, and depressing news about it  being broadcast and printed every day, and families already having had beloved relatives drafted or enlisted into the armed services, and some already killed or wounded.  They would hope that brave men from their nations would rose to the occasion and become heroes from doing heroic deeds to help win that war.  This, and the fight against the organised crime's criminal gangs that arose during The Great Depression, spurred on the birth of The Superb Hero Genre of early comic books.  With young boys wanted to imagine themselves as society's heroes fighting against the evil aggressor nations in war, or taking the law into their hands helping the impotent police fight the criminal gangs and crime bosses, to be heroes of their towns or cities.

Unfortunately, the low pay offered by the comic book publishers for story writing made it difficult for such aspiring writers to do much, if ANY research on the subjects of their story plots, and, apparently it provided them precious little time to even think logically about the elements of their stories and how best to structure them, and especially about the premises of their newly-created superheroes' super powers. 

A man who jumps into a large cauldron filled with scalding hot molten steel, hot enough to kill him almost instantly, and not only lives, but his skin becomes as strong as steel, is awfully tough to take, even in a fantasy.  And the author didn't even try to "cover up" that issue by "explaining how that works" with official pseudo-scientific jargon that would sound very scientific and allow the reader to pass over any deep thought about how that could work and not being able to suspend his or her belief in what he or she knows about The World.  At least the credentials of the scientists, and complicated scientific words might allow the young reader to move on in the story, subconsciously feeling that it COULD be plausible, and not have to stop, think deeply, and realise that it is too ridiculously silly to even enjoy as a fantasy.  There are way too many physical problems with the entire premise.  If the skin were so dense it could be like steel, it couldn't breathe(respirate).  The being would die of heat prostration.  But, before that, the kid would wonder how a man with normal human skin could survive jumping into several thousand degree liquid and not be scalded (burnt to toast).  Atb least, he could have had a scientist inject a liquid into the man's skin, explaining that it would start a chemical reaction which would cause a mutation which would change the skin cell configurations, and be reproduced in all future replacement cells, so he would have tightly-bonded skin cells, for the rest of his life that are so tight that they have the strength of steel, but otherwise still have all the original properties of human skin.  There should be a footnote at the bottom of the page saying: "Kiddies, please DO NOT jump into cauldrons filled with 1000+ degree molten metal!"

(2) Mugsy

Neat little one-page gag, nicely drawn by Warner Brothers animator Kin Platt, who also worked for Sangor Studios on Funny Animal comics, for Ben Sangor's Creston Pub./ACG, and Ned Pines, Better/NEDor (Ned & SangOR)/Standard Comics.  The artwork is excellent.  The gag is just routine, but entertaining enough for someone like me, who grew up reading '40s comics.

(3) The Scarlet Avenger - Gang Buster
It is interesting that The Scarlet Avenger is an amateur scientist who invents devices that can help him fight crime.  I'm guessing that he was wronged by a criminal gang who murdered his parents, and chose to fight
criminals to get his vengeance (starting first with that gang, and continuing until ALL orgasnised criminal gangs are obliterated from The Planet!  My guess was close.  His wife and child were killed in a hijacked plane, which crashed.  This all reminds me of another US publisher's "Avenger" superhero series.  It seems to me that almost all MLJ's superheroes and detective-crimefighter series are direct copies of those of earlier more successful series of other publishers (except maybe Hangman).  Similar to MZLJ's own Steel Sterling, Scarlet Avenger has a steel (foil) mesh cloak.  That would certainly feel rough to the skin and hold warmth in.  Not sure if it would really be thick enough to repel all bullets, based on the looks of the drawings.  He has an "hypnosis machine"  that acts like "truth Serum", forcing liars to tell the truth, and a lantern that flashes a magnetic ray. And he has a paralysis ray, as well.  Although this is the series opening and lightly-covered origin story, there is NO attempt to use a pseudo-scientific explanation for how most of these inventions work.  The Avenger uses his magnetic ray gun to "pull" a hidden steel safe out from its hiding place behind a wall, opening it and leaving the evidence to convict the Insurance Racket Mob.  Not very interesting to me.

(4) Nevada Jones - Cattle Detective
Yet another "Cowboy Detective" hired to find out who is rustling (stealing) cattle from a large cattle ranch (as even Donald Duck once did). And here we have foreign (Mexican) cattle rustlers.  The author shows the Amrericans' contempt for Mexicans, by having the hero calling them the derogatory term, "Greasers".  The backgrounds show only rocky land with almost no plant life.  What are the cattle grazing on?  In the Sonora desert there are short dry grasses, tumbleweeds, and various species of cacti.  Camels would do a lot better in such hot, drty deserts than cattle.  Cattle ranches in Arizona and New Mexico are located in the seasonally grassland areas of the high plateaus and mountain foothills, where it actually rains, NOT in the lower, sandy and rocky terribly dry deserts.  Nevada foils the rustlers, saving the beautiful young woman's ranch.  She offers him the job of Ranch Foreman, but, in true Gary Cooper and John Wayne roving cowboy drifter fashion, he politely lets her know that he has to move on.

(5) Kalthar - Giant King of The Jungle
Yet another Caucasian King of The African Jungle, showing those aboriginal, black-skinned people that people of light skin are better, stronger, smarter, and more powerful.  Another Tarzan clone, who speaks the animals' language.  But, instead of being raised by Apes, he was raised by a Black African tribe.  His father died saving the tribe (single-handedly?) from Arab slavers.  They made the son (Kalthar their tribal chief and god!  His secret source of giant size and super strength is swallowing a red type of grain. In some panels, Kalthar is almost twice the size of his fellow tribesmen; but, in others, he is only about the same size, or slightly larger than they are. He changes from giant size to normal human size by swallowing a green grain.  Magic, African VooDoo use of local herbs.  He carries the different "magic" seeds (grains) in his hair.  As is usual in many Jungle Genre stories staged in Africa, the thck rainforest (jungle) ends and a sandy desert is right next to it.  That only happens in real life when the "Jungle" area is a thin band next to an oasis pond, or small lake, or a river, with plant growth only adjacent ton the river water.  What happened to the 500 to n1,00 miles of "Sahel" Savanna high grassland and steppe low or bunchgrass grassland, in between.

While tied by The Arab slavers, Kalthar yells loud enough for his Jungle animal friends, several miles away hear it, and come running to The Arab fortress, to rescue him.  Kalthar tells his monkey friend to hand him a seed from inside his hair, so he can grow large again.  This was an obvious excuse by the author to show off (introduce) "superpowers" available to Kalthar to fight evil villains.  Overall this story didn't entertain me very much. It was a much better plot premise than the job of writing it in detail, and drawing it out.  His elrephant friend helps him defeat the slavers.

(6) War Eagles - The Devil's Flying Twins
A pair of American flyer adventurers who join The British RAF to fight, before USA joined The Allies in WWII.  Lots of nice flying action in dogfights against The German Luftwaffe fighters.  The Twins, who are rivals for glory, and apparently, winning over women, fight over a young woman ambulance driver.  After their squadron's planes are all destroyed by Nazi bombers, The Twins "steal" their replacement planes early, and go after The Germans alone against the rules.  They destroy the entire German camp and all it's planes.  This should be a superhero story!  The Kommandant vows to kill The Twins in their next meeting.  Good action, but thin story.

(7) Captain Valor - Ex Marine Adventurer

The US Marines don't feed this guy enough action!  What a man!  He quits to seek adventure on his own as a mercenary. He travels to China, and meets a teenaged boy whose sister has been kidnapped by Chinese pirates.  So they team up to save his sister.  My guess is that they will stasy teamed up for the entire series, with the boy as his "sidekick".  After defeating several pirate guards, they rescue his sister.  A new Chinese chieftan rescues the three of them from the pirates as the episode ends.  A bit from "Terry and The Pirates", and some from "Captain Easy".

{8} Mr. Satan - International Detective
International playboy and Soldier of Fortune ("The Saint" clone?) . A young woman answers his newspaper "Soldier of Fortune" advert , wanting someone to find her missing father.  The old Pygmy with the blowdart, coming all 5the way from Africa to USA to kill an American.  Where did the Pygmy get the money foir his travel tickets?  Who would pay him to do that?  Mr. Satan captures the Pygmy and asks him who sent him.  The Pygmy tells him "Big Boat".,  So Mr. Satan goes to his city's large harbour and finds a moored yacht with no lights on.  So THAT boat of many hundreds there, MUST be the villain's boat!  Of course, Mr. Satan defeats the entire villain's crew, take over the wheelhouse, and signals the harbour police to come. As they approach, he dives into the water to keep his anonymity.  Such anonomous crime-fighter stories generally seem to all be very cliche and similar to me.  Most of the MLJ detective and amateur crime fighter stories seem to be weak copies of other publishers' work, and not very inventive.

(9) Sport-O-Grams - Lou Amber - Lightweight Champion Boxer
I never heard of the guy.  But, most of the general public only heard of the heavyweight champions.

(10) The Miracle Man - Zambini The Magician
No doubt, a Mandrake clone.  Finally, an inventive idea!  Zambini has the magic ability to turn an evil force around and back towards and upon its origin (source).  The King of Ritania asks Zambini to help his nation to defeat Hundania in their war.  Zambini agrees to come and talk with him.  Why would a king of a modern nation, in 1940, hire a magician to help his country win a war????  Seems like Hitler consulting his astrologists before instructing his generals in making their battle plans (in that same war).  Hundanian spies, send a cobra to Zambini's bedroom, to kill him.  Zambini foils that scheme by hypnotising the cobra, and instructing it to return to its sender.  Zambini has real, unexplainable, magic powers that, for example, can make guns jump out of their holders' hands. Does he know the secret of what makes gravity work, and know how to affect that so as to pull objects away from their holders from a distance???? 

I never believed in magic that defies how The Universe works.  Magic was noit understanding the reason things happened, and so they couldn't be explained.  So, I always thought magicians used slight-of-hand to fool people into thinking things happened that can't be explained.  Maybe that ids because I had an aunt who was a professional puppeteer and magician (who entertained at local shows and parties).  She showed us kids (family members) how magicians' tricks were achieved.  So, I don't like stories that have magicians who use "Real" magic to capture or defeat criminals.  In this story, Zambini turns the chief Hundanian spy into a tiny "dwarf", only as tall as a man's ear.  First of all, he CAN'T be a dwarf, because dwarfism is a genetic disease which causes birth defects that include body torso sizes and limb lengths that are not within normal Human proportions.  The man he shrunk had proper body proportions, so would be better termed as a "midget" (even though that probably would be a misnomer, as well).  It seems to me that I've read some Mandrake The Magician stories in which a reader could believe that Mandrake used only slight of hand and knowledge of psychology to trick the villains in order to cause them to make mistakes that led to their capture and downfall.  I like such stories better than Ibis, whose magic wand can do anything, and Zambini, who can do anything (and the author didn't even bother to mention the source of his knowledge of those "secrets of The Ancients" that he uses to fight Evil.  Zambini also loses his magic powers at the touch of another person's hand.  Yet another aspect of unexplainable magic that is difficult to accept, especially wioth even an attempt at explanation of how that works.  It seems to me that an expert at psychology, reading people's actions, and through them, their minds, as well as fooling and tricking them with extreme mastery of slight-of-hand and knowledge of science, so that miracle-style magic wouldn't have to be used as the story's driver.  Then, too, we can respect the hero for a real skill sand bravery, because he is in much more danger in a World in which he can't count on "Magic" to automatically make him the winner, getting him out of any dsanger he'd encounter.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 10:23:16 PM by Robb_K »
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2024, 01:50:02 PM »

Archie. Like QQ, I only encountered him much later, '60'S I think.  I had no idea what the S meant or why Jughead wore that daft looking hat.  So thank you SS. What I don't like is the look of Archie in  those early stories, probably because I had no idea of the strip's history.
It was in the '60's that I first encountered Steel Sterling and the other Archie heroes.  Never liked SS but the stories I was reading were in the Radio Comics Mighty Crusaders titles. SS always seemed the least of the heroes, compared to my favourite, The Fly, andThe Shield, Comet etc.
This first Archie tale didn't amuse me at all but laterstories did, mildly. 
If it's of interest, G G Swan reprinted some Archie stories in B& W in the '50's I think.  But by the early '60's, Archie Comics could be found occasionally in our newsagents.
I knew sfa about the GA till references in DC comics after they were distributed here.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2024, 12:35:33 AM »


Pep Comics 22 (1941)
Archie.
Is this actually the very first Archie story? Anybody know?



Hi Panther

Yes, this is their first appearance. Here's an article on the evolution of Archie:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/1/26/13149304/archie-comics-riverdale-evolution

Cheers

QQ

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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #335 - 2 early MLJ Books - Zip #1 & Pep #22
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2024, 04:31:55 AM »

QQ, Thanks for the verification.
No disrespect to you - but this article is not entirely correct.
The artists on the Archie masthead book were,
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the 'house style' that Archie Comics incorporated, first introduced by Bob Montana, updated and modernized by Harry Lucey, then streamlined and perfected by Dan DeCarlo.

Of the three the one that wows me most was Harry Lucey. It's not pointed out here,
https://boards.cgccomics.com/blogs/entry/4998-archie-comics-95-classic-artists-of-the-era/
but he was the Jack Kirby of Teenager comics, in that, his work had such energy it seemed to jump off the page. Great slapstick.
There was also Samm Schwartz who defined Jughead in the 60's and 70's and whose work can be seen on CB+ in the Tower 'Tippy Teen' comics. I love artists who have their own unmistakable visual style which makes you look for more.
Also slapstick.
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he also liked to draw in his own gags or even silent mini-stories in the background. His scenes in the hall of Riverdale High School often feature explosions, pratfalls and other mishaps by characters who aren't directly involved in the story, and Edwards was particularly fond of a gag where Schwartz made it look like Mr. Weatherbee was making a rude gesture at a portrait on his office wall.[ 

Samm Schwartz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samm_Schwartz
cheers! 
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