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[Janus Wolf]

Do you know how many comics have been downloaded in the past 14 days? I looked at the download log from Feb 14 - 28.
8792 comics were downloaded. That is 628 comics downloaded a day - and that is with the "newbie" download issues.

CPU usage is constantly going over limit.

This is an open message to the users - What can we do, to not allow the CPU usage go over limit - every day. We are NOT interested in single donations.

We are interested it what users think should happen to help the site not crash with this type of usage.

Its your site, we try to make it a communal run site - so what is your advise on a site that has already given so much to you all. Perhaps, we can think of ways to help the site survive and not crash with this type of usage.

I am interested in your ideas, and complaints are just useless at this point.

[brentp256]

One big help would be to create torrents of each publisher and provide consistent links on the site.  I, for one, would rather download them in chunks by publisher.  I'd be happy to help seed.  This would keep a lot of the pressure off the site if the links were prominent and obvious.  Then, most downloaders would just be grabbing the new stuff or single issues here and there.

[bchat]

8792 comics/files sounds like a lot, but how many MB does that translate into? 

Is it possible to be a little more patient before taking any type of action?  I can't help but wonder if the number of files downloaded over the past two weeks is not simply a direct result of the site having major outages over the last several months, and that perhaps the high number of downloads is just various members getting "caught-up" with books they would have downloaded when the site was down.

Personally, I'm not interested in grabbing "chunks" of books from a single publisher or title.  Too often, I'm only interested in one issue of a given title, or I download one book to see what something is like so I don't waste time downloading a series I end-up not liking.  For example, Ziff-Davis' GI Joe was a book I downloaded a file or two for that I ended-up not liking.  There's some titles, like Boy Comics, where I only wanted a handful of the early issues, so being forced to download any type of "run" seems to me to be a waste of resources.  If someone only wants the appearances of Novelty's The Twister, why force them to download a run of Blue Bolt Comics that they'ld have no interest in getting?

[Janus Wolf]

bchat, I agree with you. The site can, and should work with an approach that you suggest.

We are just listening to what the users have to say. I do not think users are trying to catch up, as there has not really been anything new as the uploading feature has not been working for a while. Users are simply downloading batches and batches and just leaving. Even worse overloading the site and complaining as well, that there is some obligation that site meet their mass downloading demands. I am sorry I do not want to see this site die because of this type of behaviour.

I think a focus more on developing the goldenage content such a blog, character database, etc, making this THE site for goldenage will help slow down mass downloading. Again, mass downloaders who do nothing to contribute to this site really are becoming a HUGE massive burden on the site.

I am honestly not sure its worth it to please users who do nothing more then complain, download and leave. If users want to help in non financial ways please email me or post here) I certaintly am not interested in ANY single one time donations to site. Please keep the dollar or five dollars to yourselfs. This website also has NO monthly subscribers as well. (if there are / were please let me know - your contributions could be very important to help us go on a new server and improve features here). We switched owners, so their is a disconnect here, that is why we ask all donations cease and STOP.

Actually, as we can all see, we are not even taking any donations at all. We run on 0.00 support from users currently. It does get annoying reading users complain and mock the site because its free and accepts no funds right now. I could not believe some users would actually mock this site because it is free - just insane.

I think a torrent idea could be a good idea, let mass downloaders get comics from one another. The site can not handle mass downloads , the goal is to make this site more a community and not function as a torrent site which it unfortunately appears to be, and simply can not keep up with demand with its current resources. Without an upgrade in servers the site is always exceeding CPU limits.

Perhaps to thouse users who enjoy downloading, can not support the site in terms of finding or reaching goldenage content perhaps they can work together and seed publishers on mass and we can provide a link. I would support this, however, mass downloaders of the site have to work together to SEED. I think this is the challenge to mass downloaders. I know its WONDERFUL (as some users mockingly write) to get all these comics for free. Now can you PLEASE share all this content and SEED it for all to enjoy with your OWN resources? I am sorry nearly 9000 downloads in 14 days is insane. If your on a dial up, perhaps some of your other goldenage buddies with highspeed can SEED. This site is about helping and sharing. Right now, your helping drive this site into the ground by not supporting it.

We need to get out of the mass download business for the good of everyone who enjoys this site. Whatever happened to writing about what users read? To much of a struggle? Seem to demanding? But we have to keep up with this insane downloading demands and complaints? Just insane.

I have not read many or any comments on these approx 9000 downloads. I am sure many users including myself want to know - WHAT do you think about these books? Maybe users just download for the sake that its free? I think we probably have many users that do not even read the books, and just download because they can. Not very useful to the site.

But downloading on mass is the expected demand and we get insulted if we do not meet these needs to users who care just to download and nothing more to help the site?

This huge amount of downloading is excessive and just makes no sense anymore. We do not know if users like what they are downloading or just download because its "FREE". Seems very useless to keep doing things how we are doing them.

Thanks for your comments both of you. I tend to lean more with bchat's type of activity and can certaintly work with that with the site and its current resources.

Torrents, lets see some users step up to plate for this, I am not interested in this site being a torrent site anymore. I am interested in this site sharing comics in a more realistic manner and functioning more as a community and providing goldenage content. Again, I want to hear from users who want to write or contribute in terms of content here. Have an idea or interest let us know.

Its becoming meaningless to continue with the mass downloads, reading complaints, there just is no joy or anything in it other then deal with server issues now.  To thouse of you who help make this site great - thank you. To thouse of you, who may not contribute in anyway but are respectful and download realistically I thank you as well. 

[Janus Wolf]

bchat I notice you have this link:
http://www.4shared.com/dir/30094199/25578b8e/sharing.html

perfect!!!

just have users share the comics on other platforms. Let the torrent sites and download sites be just that. Users can get their mass downloading fix elsewhere. We should be like a library resource and role out the new comics here and focus more on being a community that also delivers content. Actually, why not just put the comics on mininova.org? This site will always have everything here as well, it would just be more focused then a torrent download site. I am not interested in working on this, but I think users on their own should do this.

Users who have realistic downloads or VIPS would probably be better servered right here at goldenagecomics.co.uk.

[boox909]

Do you know how many comics have been downloaded in the past 14 days? I looked at the download log from Feb 14 - 28.
8792 comics were downloaded. That is 628 comics downloaded a day - and that is with the "newbie" download issues.

CPU usage is constantly going over limit.

This is an open message to the users - What can we do, to not allow the CPU usage go over limit - every day. We are NOT interested in single donations.

We are interested it what users think should happen to help the site not crash with this type of usage.

Its your site, we try to make it a communal run site - so what is your advise on a site that has already given so much to you all. Perhaps, we can think of ways to help the site survive and not crash with this type of usage.

I am interested in your ideas, and complaints are just useless at this point.

Frankly, require a suggested base $25 VIP yearly donation.

I have donated a couple hundred dollars to GA-UK during my time here to show my thanks for the comics available.

Free downloading should always be available, but it should be on a rolling basis, perhaps 25 to 50 random non-VIP free downloads available at any given time during a particular day.

A $25 VIP yearly donation removes the non-VIP downloading bar and shows the resolve of the donator in keeping this important resource available.

I realize that many will scream that the original mission of the site is being changed, but that was then and now the site is so much more -- and if it is to remain viable long-term, it MUST be supported by those who gain from it.*   

It is time for the part of the community that wants this site to function as a 'Golden Age Comics Stimulus Package' to grow up and realize that free means crashes, offline issues, & 404 messages; put up for availability or roll the dice on the free downloading.


B.


*I know that I appreciate the potential irony of unnamed people who take the files from here and sell them on auction sites finally having to kick back some cash to GA-UK for the files and bandwith.

[Janus Wolf]

Boox909,  I agree I, the staff/scanners and many members here thank you, members like yourself, are the ones that make this site happen.

Its a balance of creating a quality site, with content, with features, that allows fans to do more then just download. For the mass downloaders, we certaintly can have torrent links here. I know I will not maintain it, but anyone is welcome to post a link or we can work out some arrangement.

While I do not personally enjoy complainers, and users that do nothing more then download (and yes - I agree abusing the site and everyone in process by then selling these comics on ebay) I still want to promote the goal of spreading the comics for free, but on a down graded scale, and that is just providing torrents to these types of users.

Users who contribute in anyway, and that does NOT mean financially, can just tell us that you like or dislike your latest comic that you read...helps make the site more then a download site and make it more a community. This of course keeps you on the site longer, and people just do not come, download on mass and leave.

True fans appreciate the content and this site should be of a 'higher' end for people who really love and enjoy what goldenagecomics.co.uk tries to do here.
True fans will appreciate the content and making comics here be organized, catologued etc. Mass Downloaders/ebay resellers do not care to develop content or arranging the books here. The true fan will appreciate this, and will want to be on this site. The mass downloader/reseller/ complainer can use torrents. Its a good win/win. For the mass downloader/reseller/complainer please step up, and start sharing this content on torrents, so you can please each other.

We need to make this site better and last for other generations.

For the complainers and mass downloaders, perhaps even ebay resellers etc...I think torrent links and a 'down graded' version of basic torrent links should be for you. After all, mass downloaders, ebay resellers, complainers do not really care to post messages or read content anyway. They are just overwhelming the server here, and truly serve no purpose here. So its away to make you all happy as we move forward.

And remember, we seek to get members opinions and listen before any action is taken.

[bchat]

If users want to help in non financial ways please email me or post here

What type of "non financial" help are you looking for?

Whatever happened to writing about what users read? ...  I have not read many or any comments on these approx 9000 downloads. I am sure many users including myself want to know - WHAT do you think about these books?

I've never been too into "reviewing" the books I've read, whether they're downloads or comics I've actually purchased.  I am willing & happy to get involved in a good topic of discussion, as the message board is the reason I visit every day.  But, with the problems the site experienced that last several months, I was a little "gun shy" to jump into anything because it seemed to me that a lot of good conversations were getting derailed by the downtime.  At least one topic I got involved with was affected by the outages, and several comments I made in one thread disappeared.  Now that it is apparent that the site is more stable than it was, I'm ready to run at the mouth when the mood strikes me.

bchat I notice you have this link:
http://www.4shared.com/dir/30094199/25578b8e/sharing.html

perfect!!!

I did that specifically because of the problems I saw non-VIP members having downloading books.  My 4shared folder only has "my books", as I don't want to host anything more than that unless/until the original scanner said it was ok and/or specifically asked me to (assuming they didn't want to do it themselves).  It's not alot to download, as I've only uploaded about two dozen files to the site, but I figured that something was better than nothing.

Frankly, require a suggested base $25 VIP yearly donation.

I have donated a couple hundred dollars to GA-UK during my time here to show my thanks for the comics available.

I'ld rather see the "give when you can" option remain.  Sorry, but when I have an extra $25 burning a hole in my pocket, I spend it on my kids.  On the other hand, $5 here or there wouldn't be missed.

[boox909]

Frankly, require a suggested base $25 VIP yearly donation.

I have donated a couple hundred dollars to GA-UK during my time here to show my thanks for the comics available.

I'ld rather see the "give when you can" option remain.  Sorry, but when I have an extra $25 burning a hole in my pocket, I spend it on my kids.  On the other hand, $5 here or there wouldn't be missed.

To be honest, I was not thinking of you or of the many scanners who have provided the site with files. You are part of the reason for GA-UK's success Brother Bchat!    I would not even insult our scanners with such a request. Beside, you might spend that $25 for comics on your kids and get them hooked! 

B.

[boox909]

Boox909, normally I write alot. But all I can say is your right and I, the staff and many members here thank you.

I do have my lucent moments -- but I honestly just want to see this site survive and thrive long into the future.

B. 

[dhfh]

bchat I notice you have this link:
http://www.4shared.com/dir/30094199/25578b8e/sharing.html

perfect!!!

just have users share the comics on other platforms. Let the torrent sites and download sites be just that. Users can get their mass downloading fix elsewhere. We should be like a library resource and role out the new comics here and focus more on being a community that also delivers content. Actually, why not just put the comics on mininova.org? This site will always have everything here as well, it would just be more focused then a torrent download site. I am not interested in working on this, but I think users on their own should do this.

Users who have realistic downloads or VIPS would probably be better servered right here at goldenagecomics.co.uk.

Well J of L,

I'm both shocked and yet not surprised by the news in this thread.  Shocked at these numbers suddenly being posted after thinking everything has been running fairly smoothly for quite some time, but not surprised that the massive downloading has become an issue.  This is an internet and computer industry-wide trend that I've been disgusted by for years now.  And with each passing year it's getting worse!

But, we're only interested in the matter at hand here, so I'll not go too far afield.  I think that the recent developments in the forum,  like the inventory spreadsheet , show that the VIPs and other dedicated members are interested in moving the site further towards being THE golden age site, as you put it.

I think that we might be seeing a number of different reasons for the massive downloads.  Some of them might be caused by the drawbacks to making only whole books available on the site.  As can been seen by the comments that led Eric --srca1941-- to bring back his goldenyears site, some people are only interested in a single story in an issue or a single character's run in a title.  These people aren't being serviced effectively by our current library.  I don't think we should completely change the way things are done here in order to serve them better, but am merely pointing out a potential source of massive downloading.  Yoc, Phabox, and others have put together such downloads as Phantom Lady Archives that address this kind of user.  "Steve's" goldenyears site also helps out.

Also, some people might be downloading issues just to see if they're interested in them, like bchat said about GI Joe.  The library isn't particularly suited to this purpose either.  But, I've seen sites start to pop-up that do cater to this.  Fury Comics is one example.

So, one thing I think we can do is create links on the download pages that point people to other sites that would service them better.  I am well aware of the policy to not point people to sites that contain non-PD material, and am not suggesting we include those ones, but a number of sites, and possibly blogs, restrict themselves to PD stuff just as we do.  Maybe we could collaborate with them.  If so, we'd still be THE golden age site, but we'd also be able to point people to sites that might service them better.

Another thing I think we can do is set up a sort of analog to a mirror site.  I've noticed many other sites have put our books up on places like rapidshare, 4share, megaupload, etc.  These sites simply put up links to the individual files, they don't host the books themselves.  What if we did the same thing as an alternative method for downloading the books?  (Like what bchat is doing, but on a more integrated scale.)  As an example of the kind of links I'm talking about, when a non-member goes to the download page of a particular book, instead of seeing a link that says "download", clicking on that link and being told "Sorry, your not a member", the non-member error could redirect the non-member to bchat's 4shared copy of the link.  This could also be extended to the point that if the CPU is being overloaded, the site automatically redirects all requests to the alternate download.

This would allow us to keep the library, still be THE source, cut down on the mass downloads, and offer a way for non-members to access the books.  In short, you wouldn't have to be a member of the community in order to get the books, but you would have to be a member of the community in order to get them directly from us.

If we created this quasi-mirror site, we'd also be able to put multiple books in a single zip or rar file.  (Something I've seen other sites do  that would appeal to members like brentp256, but which tended to drive me nuts because, like bchat, I many times only want to look at one book in the file and have been forced to download a huge zip file for the privledge.  That's one of the reasons I joined GAC-UK in the first place.)

Finally, a little background on my own recent activity on the site.  (Not that I thought you were aiming any accussations my way, mind you.)  I've not been able to put as much commentary out about the books due to being pressed for time.  But I've not been doing a whole lot of downloading either.  I've been trying to finish the edits to some books I've been able to scan, and therefore have been trying to contribute to the site.  I prefer to have any scans or edits I do to be posted here first, because this is the site I think has the best policies for it's members and does the best job giving access to individual books.  I don't see anything wrong with the books being stored on more than one site, but only after being posted here.

I hope some of these suggestions help to solve the problem.

DHFH

[Janus Wolf]

bchat, non financial just means if you can not afford anything to help, contribute in any non financial way you can. I have a son and a family to. Serj paid 200.00 a month on this site. Sorry, I am not paying that for complainers, ebay resellers, mass downloaders. if you see what I see, you just shake your head.

This site is now on a regular normal host now, there is no way it was staying on that type of server (which still encounted problems) Things can be managable, here. Things will never be managable on any type of high end server if this continues.

I will come up with some content ideas later and hope to hear from you all as well. But a quick idea, is simple.

Just write whatever you like in message forum, I know some members talk about pets/family. Its all fine with me, make it a community and one that lasts for future generations. The theme is ALWAYS goldenage comics here, its just people are more then just that. I am sure you are all more then goldenage fans, but that is what unites us here.

Sure it helps if its goldenage related but no one would be enforcing that, its better anyway,  it just builds the site and makes it more enjoyable. Makes the site strong, rather then on limited resources and make the CPU be overwhelmed.

DAFH, I agree with your comments on users that want scans to be uploaded here first and for users who are interested in selecting certain books, and making this an excellent  resource center.

In terms of links, torrents, pointing to other sites, someone can take the lead, GAC-UK can provide the info, but would not maintain it. There is to much work to make this site the source and the best for people that make this site what it is like yourself. thanks.

[narfstar]

Like your ideas D. I have posted rapidshare links with some of my uploads. I have others on rapidshare that I can add to my past uploads. This keeps bandwidth from the server and gives me points on rapidshare. I think we can include rapidshare and/or mediafire links on many of our files.

[Astaldo711]

I like the idea of people giving money when they can and how much. I'm pretty sure I can swing $10 when we're able to do so again, but I can't say for certain I could do an ongoing one. I never know what might pop up. My last computer got a nasty virus and died. My wife works from home about once a week and we pay our bills online so no computer isn't an option. We bought a cheap one but it still had to take money from somewhere else.
I like the ideas of reviews. Maybe each book gets a score of 1-10. If you were to have the quality of the book as a grade I think that would be a sticky issue. I've seen MANY people complain about fiche scans. Yes, it's a pain to read them but someone still took the time to upload it and it's a free book. Some little troll will knock every score because it's not a pristine mint copy. Perhaps limiting reviews to people you select or have a certain number of posts?
I initially thought asking members to use their computers for a leech was a good idea. The only reason I'm not sure any longer is because of my recent problems with my computer. I'm VERY wary now about what I download and where I download it. Opening up my computer to others is scary to me. Of course, I only basically understand how the process works and I trust this site and the people here 100% (otherwise I wouldn't even CONSIDER donating) so if somewhere can assure me, I may be okay. I have a pretty fast cable connection.
I agree that this site is a community. I have belonged to many sites over the years and this is by far the friendliest and most helpful. I don't think I've ever logged on here without checking the forums to see what's going on. I love the diversity of people and the interaction. Makes it feel like a family.
Whatever you decide just realize that there are plenty of people here that appreciate all the hard work that goes into this site. These are treasures from our past and must be preserved for prosperity if for nothing else. I think there is a core of people here that will do whatever they can to keep this site going and to assist the people running it.

[JonTheScanner]

One idea to cut down on bandwidth would be for us scanners to post the books to the newsgroup (ABPC) or one of the DC++ share sites, and not put it up here for a week or so.  If we're getting a lot of downloads immediately after a new book is put up, that might reduce them.  It would make this site less of a "bookstore" for new scans and more of a "lending library" for older scans.

[Janus Wolf]

new books can be here first, that is not a problem. We can handle all the new books and all the requests from everyone.
There has to be some users that has already downloaded this site and all its comics. Just put a torrent per publisher for newbies, and we can handle the rest.

New users are constantly finding this site because of new handheld devices like itouch etc, and this is why we have such hits, this is just a place to get free comics to many, not necessarily goldenage fans....

[Yoc]

I really think this topic is premature but I do like Jon's suggestion that the newest scans could be shared on Mediafire to lessen the load on GAC and add them here later.  Makes sense to me.

This is a problem that should be sorted internally before we open it to the general members.  There are already a couple of comics heavy bit-torrent sites out there if you go looking gang.  We don't need to start a new one.

-Yoc

[Janus Wolf]

agreed. use the resources for these comics that are already out there. There are many torrent/download sites already. Please find, use them. Perhaps we can post these links.

Unfortunately, I had to post this publicly to let everyone know our CPU trottle issues. Might as well be up front about it. Might as well have everyone's input and thoughts, not just what I think.

Just approx 9000 was alot to handle so sudden and the CPU was going nuts.

We can handle new comics here.

Janus

[bchat]

Janus - Regarding "non financial help" ... I thought you meant that you were looking for "grunt-work" type assistance. 

They might not be the greatest ideas in the world, but here's some quick thoughts I just had ...
A tiered format for new members. 
Perhaps for the first 7 days, to pull a number of days out of thin air, new members would be given severe limits on how much they could DL in each 24-hour period (100-200MB), with an additional 100MB added each 7-day period until they reach the regular non-VIP limit ...
OR ...
If you want people to be more active in the message boards as a way of building the community, maybe tie their daily MB limit into how many posts they have, an additional "X" MB per "X" posts, until the non-VIP limit is reached.
In either case, spell it out upfront before/during registration in big bold letters that there are restictions on downloading for new members.

OR ... getting away from the "tiered membership" ...
Maybe resize some of the larger files, taking the 80MB book and resizing the images to 30-40MB, giving people an option of taking the smaller file while leaving the 80MB file alone for whoever needs such large images.

Again, I'm just throwing these thoughts out there.

Moving right along ...  I can imagine that a "newbie" comes here, gets excited at everything available and goes a little nuts downloading every day.  Obviously, the "resellers" are just grabbing whatever & however much they can to make a buck, but how do weed those people out without alienating the honest folk as well?

[boox909]

Moving right along ...  I can imagine that a "newbie" comes here, gets excited at everything available and goes a little nuts downloading every day.  Obviously, the "resellers" are just grabbing whatever & however much they can to make a buck, but how do weed those people out without alienating the honest folk as well?

Bchat,

Respectfully, I do not see it as 'alienating honest folk' -- it is asking people to make a commitment to the site if they plan to utilize it regularly. Hosting and bandwidth are the two major costs that has deviled the site. I do not want to come across as a snob, but it is not unfair to expect people to help keep the site alive. When I first came here I quickly ran up against the download limits and prompted began donating; heck, I pay for access Marvel digital also, I have always noted that I am willing to pay for access. While I understand that some are not willing or able to pay, I still believe that this site's users should at least try.

If the admins could lock in the price it would take to run the site for a year, perhaps funds could be raised annually. You make a good point about newbies, and I am not unwilling to subsidize those who cannot pay, but someone has to be willing and able to pay to keep things going and those of us who are not scanners, and can contribute funds, should at least make it known that we are willing -- otherwise, the majority of people may end up finding these files at action site stores ran by unnamed mass resellers -- I do not want that at all.

B.

[dhfh]

I've been mulling this whole thing over, and I think we need some more info about what's actually going on to cause the insane numbers.  Without more data, I've realized that there might be more truth to bchat's "everyone is just getting caught up" remark than first appears.

Unless I overlooked something mentioned in a previous post, we don't know what types of members are doing the massive downloads.  If possible, I would greatly like to see a breakdown of the figures.  Not member-by-member, I don't want to single anyone out. But a breakdown by something more like the number of members downloading 1 or 2 scans,2 to 10 scans, over 10 scans at a time.  Also of interest would be the average per VIP/newbie and average number of download vs. forum posts.  Perhaps even number of downloads vs. age of the scans.  (I've no idea how easy it would be to produce the numbers, so realize I'm not asking for herculean efforts.  If it can't be done easily, ... maybe that's another area to look into.)

However the numbers work out, I do think it's in the best interests of the site if we put new ideas in place.  When the member list was smaller, the system was really working well.  With over 8000 members, it's not just an overloaded CPU that's the problem.

Unfortunately, I had to post this publicly to let everyone know our CPU trottle issues. Might as well be up front about it. Might as well have everyone's input and thoughts, not just what I think.

Now that you've got the message out there, Janus, maybe the  thread should become internalized.  I think both public and private has trade-offs.  Up to you where to go on that one.

DHFH

[narfstar]

I do not put all my books on rapidshare but could and post the links elsewhere before here. I usually put things here first as this is my first site of choice. If $20 a month is the problem I can swing that or half or whatever if others want to commit. Four people would only be $5 a month.

[boox909]

As I have given my opinion on the issues at hand, I will shut up and await whatever solutions our Admin concoct. 

B.

[dhfh]

Boox,

I'm sure no one here thinks you have to shut up.  In fact, I think everyone should be discussing this so that the admins, know what we're willing to live with.  Afterall, Mr. Latinum has asked for our help.  Besides, we haven't heard your opinions on the ideas that haven't been proposed yet.

Frankly, require a suggested base $25 VIP yearly donation.

I have donated a couple hundred dollars to GA-UK during my time here to show my thanks for the comics available.

Free downloading should always be available, but it should be on a rolling basis, perhaps 25 to 50 random non-VIP free downloads available at any given time during a particular day.

A $25 VIP yearly donation removes the non-VIP downloading bar and shows the resolve of the donator in keeping this important resource available.

I've given a lot of thought to your above proposal and, while I can see the merits of your basic idea, I don't understand how this would really solve the problem.  Please don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack, it's not intended that way and I'm going to try my best to not make it sound that way.

First I'm going to restate your proposed yearly subscription idea in my own words so that if I misunderstood what you were driving at, you'll know where and why I'm responding the way I am.

You're proposing that GA-UK goes back to the monetary donation option of making VIPs.  (Since no donations are being accepted right now, technically this is currently not an option for becoming a VIP.) 

Further you're suggesting changing the VIP monetary donation to a yearly subscription of $25 rather than a voluntary, possibly one-time, amount.  All members who aren't VIPs would have to download books whenever the system has not reached a download limit of between 25 and 50 simultaneous downloads. 

If I haven't misunderstood you, this is what I see as the potential drawbacks to your suggestion:

1.) I assume that the VIPs we currently have are not a part of the group eating up bandwidth.  Not only have most of them been here long enough to have acquired the bulk of the older scans already, the VIPs seem to me to all know better than that.  (Both of us being VIPs make for good examples, I think.)  So a yearly fee being imposed on us would keep the system going, but we would be the ones paying for the non-VIPs to have the privledge of downloading the random 25-50 free concurrent downloads.

Though 25-50 sounds small, it's still a big enough number in a 24 hour period to make for at least a few hundred free downloads a week that you, I, and the other VIPs would be paying for.  And if these downloads are being used by people to make ebay sales and the like, I, for one, am not interested in financially helping them out.  AT ALL!

2.) You said you weren't thinking of people like bchat (and I'm assuming you would therefore exclude me as well) in the yearly subscription because they have been contributing to the site's success.  (This has been the other option for becoming a VIP.)  This means that we would have to have a way of distinguishing between paying and non-paying VIPs.  I can only see that becoming very problematic as time goes on.  How does one decide when a yearly subscription would have to apply?  Would it be suspended once someone contributed a scan?  How long would the suspension be? etc.

3.) Making the unnamed people who sell on aution sites pay back to the site certainly has great attraction.  But, a $25 yearly subscription would probably be well worth it to these folks and once they've "showed their resolve and become VIPs", the massive downloading as a VIP would be sanctioned!

4.) The non-VIPs would be penalized en masse for not becoming a VIP through donation and this might be off-putting to many potential scan contibutors.  (I know it would have changed the way I felt when I first tried to contribute with edits.)  The effect of this free download restriction could be a downgrading of the friendly atomsphere we have here.  Possibly creating the feeling of an in-crowd of VIPs and a snubbing of those second class mere members.

So, I propose that if the monetary donation model is the way the administrators feel we need to go, make it that all members have to pay a yearly due of perhaps $1.  With over 8000 members (8320 at the time of this writing, with about 10 of those having been added within the last few hours) there would be ample funds to run the site using the $200 a month figure Janus quoted Serj had been paying.

Personally, I think with the way I've seen the site being used,  the real problem is not from VIPs with unlimited download capability.  (Again, it would be nice to see what the numbers per VIP/newbie are.)  Instead I think that the download limits are not functioning properly due to the sheer number of members.  If other ideas don't get adopted, and the problem persists, the only solution left will probably be switching to a system-wide daily download limit.  Those contributing in any way, either money or scans, being given a greater priority over those who don't.

This would be a signicant change in the way things are run.  The site would survive, but at the cost of not being the same site it was.  I don't want to see that happen!  This thread clearly demonstrates that the site already isn't what it used to be and, without trimming down the number of members, cannot and should not go back to exactly what it was.  But, there is still room to go partially back.  What we need to figure out is how to change the site to accomodate what it's become and to limit abuses.

DHFH

[boox909]

Boox,

I'm sure no one here thinks you have to shut up.  In fact, I think everyone should be discussing this so that the admins, know what we're willing to live with.  Afterall, Mr. Latinum has asked for our help.  Besides, we haven't heard your opinions on the ideas that haven't been proposed yet.

Frankly, require a suggested base $25 VIP yearly donation.

I have donated a couple hundred dollars to GA-UK during my time here to show my thanks for the comics available.

Free downloading should always be available, but it should be on a rolling basis, perhaps 25 to 50 random non-VIP free downloads available at any given time during a particular day.

A $25 VIP yearly donation removes the non-VIP downloading bar and shows the resolve of the donator in keeping this important resource available.

I've given a lot of thought to your above proposal and, while I can see the merits of your basic idea, I don't understand how this would really solve the problem.  Please don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack, it's not intended that way and I'm going to try my best to not make it sound that way.

First I'm going to restate your proposed yearly subscription idea in my own words so that if I misunderstood what you were driving at, you'll know where and why I'm responding the way I am.

You're proposing that GA-UK goes back to the monetary donation option of making VIPs.  (Since no donations are being accepted right now, technically this is currently not an option for becoming a VIP.) 

Further you're suggesting changing the VIP monetary donation to a yearly subscription of $25 rather than a voluntary, possibly one-time, amount.  All members who aren't VIPs would have to download books whenever the system has not reached a download limit of between 25 and 50 simultaneous downloads. 

If I haven't misunderstood you, this is what I see as the potential drawbacks to your suggestion:

1.) I assume that the VIPs we currently have are not a part of the group eating up bandwidth.  Not only have most of them been here long enough to have acquired the bulk of the older scans already, the VIPs seem to me to all know better than that.  (Both of us being VIPs make for good examples, I think.)  So a yearly fee being imposed on us would keep the system going, but we would be the ones paying for the non-VIPs to have the privledge of downloading the random 25-50 free concurrent downloads.

Though 25-50 sounds small, it's still a big enough number in a 24 hour period to make for at least a few hundred free downloads a week that you, I, and the other VIPs would be paying for.  And if these downloads are being used by people to make ebay sales and the like, I, for one, am not interested in financially helping them out.  AT ALL!

2.) You said you weren't thinking of people like bchat (and I'm assuming you would therefore exclude me as well) in the yearly subscription because they have been contributing to the site's success.  (This has been the other option for becoming a VIP.)  This means that we would have to have a way of distinguishing between paying and non-paying VIPs.  I can only see that becoming very problematic as time goes on.  How does one decide when a yearly subscription would have to apply?  Would it be suspended once someone contributed a scan?  How long would the suspension be? etc.

3.) Making the unnamed people who sell on aution sites pay back to the site certainly has great attraction.  But, a $25 yearly subscription would probably be well worth it to these folks and once they've "showed their resolve and become VIPs", the massive downloading as a VIP would be sanctioned!

4.) The non-VIPs would be penalized en masse for not becoming a VIP through donation and this might be off-putting to many potential scan contibutors.  (I know it would have changed the way I felt when I first tried to contribute with edits.)  The effect of this free download restriction could be a downgrading of the friendly atomsphere we have here.  Possibly creating the feeling of an in-crowd of VIPs and a snubbing of those second class mere members.

So, I propose that if the monetary donation model is the way the administrators feel we need to go, make it that all members have to pay a yearly due of perhaps $1.  With over 8000 members (8320 at the time of this writing, with about 10 of those having been added within the last few hours) there would be ample funds to run the site using the $200 a month figure Janus quoted Serj had been paying.

Personally, I think with the way I've seen the site being used,  the real problem is not from VIPs with unlimited download capability.  (Again, it would be nice to see what the numbers per VIP/newbie are.)  Instead I think that the download limits are not functioning properly due to the sheer number of members.  If other ideas don't get adopted, and the problem persists, the only solution left will probably be switching to a system-wide daily download limit.  Those contributing in any way, either money or scans, being given a greater priority over those who don't.

This would be a signicant change in the way things are run.  The site would survive, but at the cost of not being the same site it was.  I don't want to see that happen!  This thread clearly demonstrates that the site already isn't what it used to be and, without trimming down the number of members, cannot and should not go back to exactly what it was.  But, there is still room to go partially back.  What we need to figure out is how to change the site to accomodate what it's become and to limit abuses.

DHFH

Hi DHFH,

No miscommunication at all on your part. I want to see an explosion of VIPs on the site. My solution is not touchy-feely, but it works if people commit.

I am not taken with your 'system-wide daily download limit' ... sounds too 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need' and that, in my opinion, would render the site into disaster and eventual non-existence.

B.