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Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics  (Read 6053 times)

crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2022, 09:06:18 AM »

Amazing! Thanks for finding that piece about "Zimmy." Now I wonder why the comic feature didn't stress the fact that he had no legs. I thought the drawing might have been a printer's error. Cool that he could float forever because without legs his body was unusually buoyant.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2022, 11:55:37 AM »


Amazing! Thanks for finding that piece about "Zimmy." Now I wonder why the comic feature didn't stress the fact that he had no legs. I thought the drawing might have been a printer's error. Cool that he could float forever because without legs his body was unusually buoyant.


They mentioned he was legless in the blurb under the picture, but it was easy to miss. Amazing that he could do all of those feats. I'd never heard of him either, so just did a quick google search to see if it was true.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2022, 06:51:50 PM »


Quote
There are as far as I know no facially disfigured superheroes,

Ironjaw? As far as i know there were two Iron Jaws, the golden  age one, I think, is a villain and I think the British one is a hero. Please correct me.
There have been several occasions when TwoFace has operated as a hero. And how about Metamorpho?
Quote
and sure as shit there ain't no fat ones!

Sorry Blues Man, as Paw has pointed out, there are several. Bouncing Boy [LSH] is another example.
Also there are several weight-challenged sidekicks.
Woozy Winks and Kid Eternity's mentor/sidekick come to mind .
Quote
  I have yet to see a homeless person gain super powers though I'm not entirely up to date with the modern comic scene.
  The Turtles? Living in a sewer? 
In the Golden Age, surely Billy Batson qualifies, he was a street kid at the beginning was he not? As was FreddyScott Free and Big Barda at the beginning of their careers, are stateless refugees technically, As is J'on J'onz
And what about Kirby's DC street kid gangs? We never see parents or homes in those books.
Now I think about it, after his Dad died, who took care of Matt Murdock and got him through college?
Even when he started his legal practice, Bruce Wayne he was not! 
Which brings up a subject dear to my heart, to whit, the absence of parents, and more often than not, family,  and the prevalence of orphans in the back-stories of Superheroes. Particularly in the Golden Age. 
Off we go on another tangent! I love it! Ain't we got fun!   



Now I know Iron Jaw the Nazi villain, I don't know any other Iron Jaws except Atlas's Iron Jaw the Barbarian, who's not a superhero, just a very unfortunate version of Conan. Metamorpho was Rex Mason, an ordinary human, who spends a lot of time trying to escape his bizarre transformation and get back to being an ordinary human.

All the fat "heroes" are still really jokes or humour features. The Inferior Five, Fatman, Blimpy, and Woozy are all humour features or comic relief. Herbie is still dubious because as Robb point out he's "disgustingly obese" so the fact that women might swoon over him is still just a fat shaming joke. After all what woman could ever love a fat man? Even Bouncing Boy's powers are based on his girth, not his heroic nature.

I'll give you Freddy Freeman, though even he had to live somewhere albeit a "boarding house"? But I don't think powers have ever been granted to someone living in a cardboard box on the Embankment. I'm not sure about Kid Gangs, presumably they had homes and parents who weren't important to the plot?

And as the panel blurb says, it's not generally known that the famous Ragman is the owner of the Daily Herald newspaper, so probably not entirely homeless. Anyhow I'm very impressed by Zimmy the Fish, he sounds like a real life superhero, though he could've had a more dramatic name!

Appreciate all the suggestions, thanks people.
All the best
K1ngcat





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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2022, 07:27:07 PM »

Tommy Troy.  Ragman the DC1976 hero was a Vietnam vet, I remember.  His origin confused me about his background.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2022, 09:47:43 PM »

Quote
Which brings up a subject dear to my heart, to whit, the absence of parents, and more often than not, family,  and the prevalence of orphans in the back-stories of Superheroes. Particularly in the Golden Age.


It's a surefire way to present a child hero without getting bogged down by mundane stuff like going to school, being home by dinner, and helping with the dishes. It's somewhat easier now with so many single-working-parent families and two-earner households in which the kids are frequently home alone. But in Golden and Silver Age comics Mom was always home and the whole family was together until bedtime. Unless their parents were in on the secret like the Kents were, superkids had to continually practice subterfuges and invent excuses for leaving the house or coming in late. I'm thinking of the Tomboy strip (in Sterling's Captain Flash), in which Janie pretends to be terrified by crime news and "hides" in her room so she can sneak out the bedroom window. It's hard to believe that never once did her mother, wishing to comfort her, enter Janie's room and discover that she'd flown the coop. This is the same complaint I have with superheroes whose civilian identity is a cop. Sooner or later the chief is going to get fed up with an officer who always disappears when the action starts, only to turn up later with a lame excuse.

So kid heroes are either self-sufficient orphans like Freddy Freeman or, like the Newsboy Legion, under the care of a sympathetic adult who presumably provides meals and shelter. Or, of course, the sidekick of a guardian who's also a superhero like Catman and Kitten. In these cases the child is invariably an orphan for the same reason as before: to free him or her from accountability to their parents. Imagine what a different world it would have been if Dick Grayson had living parents whom he constantly had to hoodwink so he could duck out and fight crime alongside kindly Uncle Bruce. And wouldn't Dr W have liked that!
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2022, 01:19:09 AM »


Tommy Troy.  Ragman the DC1976 hero was a Vietnam vet, I remember.  His origin confused me about his background.


Sorry paw, didn't realise we were talking about different Ragmen. I probably wasn't reading much DC in 1976. Didn't Tommy Troy come from an orphanage or similar place run by a corrupt and nasty Mr Creacher, who was defeated by The Fly in the first couple of issues? Where he lived after that I'm honestly not sure.

And, fair enough, Billy Batson was also an orphan and as much a "street kid" as Freddy Freeman, I'm must admit I was thinking more about the huge numbers of rough sleepers and cardboard-box dwellers than people (or beings) rendered stateless by virtue of arriving on this planet from another world. I loved Kirby's "fourth world" in DC but I'm darned if I can remember where Scott Free lived. I also never came across Two Face as a hero, these darn writers will try anything!  :D

Looking forward to crash's final words on Top Notch
All the best
K1ngcat
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2022, 06:46:52 AM »


The rich and idle often seem to turn to crime fighting, perhaps to salve their consciences at being so goddamn rich and idle.

There's an old saying, "I work 8 hours, I sleep 8 hours that leaves 8 hours for fun." The rich and idle have 16 hours for fun (assuming your idea of fun is wearing a weird costume and beating up flamboyant criminals.  ;) )


We see relatively few poor crime fighters

[As Jack Nicholson's Joker] Where would they get those magnificent toys?  ;) Being a superhero is an expensive hobby.

In the 1970s Man-Bat had a series in Batman Family and part of his gimmick was collecting the rewards on the criminals he caught.

Apparently the later Mr. Scarlet & Pinky stories had the heroes travelling the country because they were so good at stopping criminals Mr. Scarlet was fired as DA.


There are as far as I know no facially disfigured superheroes

That would make it tough to keep an identity secret. "Gosh, Bob, isn't it odd that you and Superdude have matching scars on your cheek?"  ;)

There was, however, a pulp hero called the Black Bat whom I believe had facial scars and he sorta made the transition to comics, but he had to change his name because of some other company's bat-named hero.

For a brief period in the 90s the Thing of the Fantastic Four had his face sliced by Wolverine's claws, and later Mr. Fantastic had his face scarred by Doctor Doom using magic.

In an issue of Batman Family (1970s again) Man-Bat teamed up with the Demon, and a cop said to his partner, something like, "Remember when heroes were good-looking?"

There's a manga called Buso Renkin, while not technically superheroes, the author was a big fan of the X-Men and it has a superhero feel to it and the lead female has a scar across her face.


the fact that women might swoon over him is still just a fat shaming joke.

How is that fat shaming?

It's your basic inversion joke. People attracted to someone they wouldn't normally be attracted to. The humor is the same whether the person is fat, a 98 pound weakling, or a duck. (Although in real life ugly guys can get women swooning over them... if they're rich or a rock star.  ;) )
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2022, 09:08:07 AM »

The most disfigured (sort of) super hero would be "Unknown Soldier" who had almost all the flesh blasted from his head by a grenade early in WW2. Plastic surgery of the day could do little so his head (which was never seen till a single shocking episode) looked like a red skull.
He explored the limits of prosthetics and make up and found he could impersonate anyone he could get a photograph of. He became a OSS agent, saboteur and assassin.

The Unknown Soldier inspired the creation of "Darkman" who appeared in several films. He was a scientist tortured and his face and hands doused with acid by gangsters who set fire to his lab which resulted in his already horribly disfigured hands and face being burned beyond recognition. He used his invention, a sythetic skin, to create new faces to impersonate those he wished to torment and set up for destruction. The synthetic flesh was only temporary so he worked against a time limit.
There may have been a comic version of the original story written by Sam Rami.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2022, 09:38:06 AM »

Quote
There may have been a comic version of the original story written by Sam Rami.

Yeah, there was.And a sequel anyway.
How come I didn't know that until now?
Darkman (1993 comic)
https://darkman.fandom.com/wiki/Darkman_(1993_comic)
2 miniseries apparently.
Darkman
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/darkman/4005-42133/ 
And a crossover with Army of Darkness? !
Thank you Captain!   
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 09:44:27 AM by The Australian Panther »
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2022, 01:28:36 AM »

These two were a great way to finish off the summer. When I was a kid, golden age comics would take me days to read, and never at a sitting. You’d always have to come back to them.

WONDERWORLD I liked better because you had Eisner and his future superstars when they were still making their bones. The quality story to story was pretty consistent and you didn’t have that drop off you sometimes get in golden age comics when you get one or two great stories at the front followed by whatever they had in the bullpen that month.

TOP NOTCH seemed a bit more static to me with the panels so rigidly in place you could use them as rulers. The art didn’t grab me as much as the Young Bob and Will from WONDERWOLD, but what could? ‘Crash was dead on about the zombie’s (or whatever they are) in WONDERWOLD. Those would be right at home in an E.C. book.

You would have been happy as a kid to invested the dime for either of these two.



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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2022, 01:48:24 AM »

Thanks SS  for the interesting collection of scarred heroes, I'm afraid I've completely forgotten Deadpool, who manages to cover up his scars with an all-over costume. I don't think he has anything that you'd really call a secret Identity.

BTW, I still think Herbie has a fat-shaming element to it inasmuch as if they wrote the same comic without a fat hero, people wouldn't find it as funny. But I take it you've never been fat?  ;)

Thanks also to the Captain for reminding me I forgot about Darkman, who like Deadpool had more than just facial scarring.

And thanks too to Morgus, glad you enjoyed the choices, I don't think Top Notch beats Wonderworld either but rigid or not the art in it beats an awful lot of what was being published at the time.

Appreciate all the input
All the best
K1ngcat
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2022, 04:32:29 AM »

Time to reopen Top Notch #1 and check out the middle and bottom notches.

In the title panel The Mystic appears to be a Mandrake-style magician but he proves to be a non-powered stage magician instead. The story is rather rudimentary and the only time The Mystic's magic skills enter the picture is when the crooks put him into the trick coffin they found in his car. Kind of silly if you stop to think about it: "They're out cold! Let's toss 'em in the lake!" "No, let's look in the trunk instead. Oh, look! A collapsible coffin! We'll use that!" That's why you don't stop to think about it. The artwork isn't bad.

A quick page of word puzzles (they forgot "heel" and "thigh" on the first one), then the issue ends with a whimper. The Westpointer reads like a narrated slide show rather than a story. What little interest there might have been is sucked out by the deadly dull presentation. The art is okay.

Bob McCay seems to have felt overshadowed by his famous dad. Bob was always trying to make Winsor's ideas pay off for him, even to the point of calling himself "Winsor McCay II" and "Winsor McCay, Jr." It's not that his stuff was that bad, it's just a bit sad that he never developed his own artistic personality.

One thing I wanted to mention was the use of an odd narrative device that appeared in some Golden Age stories. This is the caption which is a sentence fragment written in the progressive tense that describes the action in a panel. An example is in our page 47, panel 5. The Mystic is tied to a chair. The caption reads:

"Struggling to slip his bonds..."

I've never seen this construction in a newspaper comic strip, only in comic books. "Diving into the lake..." "Crashing through the wall..." It was so common in certain Better/Nedor stories that I thought it might be the personal quirk of a particular writer. But here it is a couple of years earlier. Most captions would say, "The Mystic struggles to slip his bonds..." or something similar. Interestingly (to me, anyway) I've found this construction in Golden Age Italian comics. Not so much in French comics and never in British ones.

This brings us to the end of Top Notch #1. The stories are kind of lame, but some of the art is pretty good and I'm always interested to see early GA comics because good or bad, many have that flavor of young creators eagerly experimenting with their new medium.

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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2022, 05:12:36 AM »



One thing I wanted to mention was the use of an odd narrative device that appeared in some Golden Age stories. This is the caption which is a sentence fragment written in the progressive tense that describes the action in a panel. An example is in our page 47, panel 5. The Mystic is tied to a chair. The caption reads:

"Struggling to slip his bonds..."

I've never seen this construction in a newspaper comic strip, only in comic books. "Diving into the lake..." "Crashing through the wall..." It was so common in certain Better/Nedor stories that I thought it might be the personal quirk of a particular writer. But here it is a couple of years earlier. Most captions would say, "The Mystic struggles to slip his bonds..." or something similar. Interestingly (to me, anyway) I've found this construction in Golden Age Italian comics. Not so much in French comics and never in British ones.

This brings us to the end of Top Notch #1. The stories are kind of lame, but some of the art is pretty good and I'm always interested to see early GA comics because good or bad, many have that flavor of young creators eagerly experimenting with their new medium.


That was interesting about the use of captions. I hadn't thought of that. There's another unusual one on p. 48 where it shows the rear-view mirror and the caption 'What they saw...'  It's almost like it steps out of the story to give the information. I agree it's interesting to look at these older comics, even when some of the stories aren't brilliant, because it's good to see the early writers and artists trying out ideas.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2022, 08:54:54 PM »

Review of Top Notch Comics 1

The Wizard
Not a magician like Mandrake, who can use magic to perform impossible feats, but a super-genius engineer, who can design machines of the future, which can travel at super speeds, have impregnable walls, skins, or shells, turn things invisible, etc. , and he can perform stage-style illusions and escapes.  Disguised as an ultra upper class playboy, he seems not to be a sympathetic hero with whom common comic book readers can easily identify. This is yet another late 1930s US spy story which presages Japanese plans to attack The US Military bases in Hawaii (specifically, Pearl Harbor).  That jibes with the fact that it has been postulated, many times, that US Military Intelligence actually knew about The Japanese plans to bomb Pearl Harbor well before, but didn't do anything about it, as they wanted an excuse to declare war on not only Japan, but also Germany.  The fact that The US Navy had its three giant aircraft carriers away at sea, on maneuvers at the time of the attack (allowing them to keep their naval power edge over The Japanese Navy), might seem to many, more than just a lucky coincidence, and could seem to support the theory of their "allowing" the attack to result in such large destruction. 

The fact that this is the introduction story for The Wizard added a lot of extra pages of showing his ancestors serving their country, and showing how he became who he is today.  Of the 11 story pages (counting the title page), only 5 of them show the actual story in current action.  Two whole pages showing his ancestors' dedication to serving their country, with 2 more lost to his own accomplishments in youth takes up half of the story pages.  That, to me, is too big a chunk, and so takes away a lot of punch from the story

Scott Rand, in The Worlds of Time
Just as many different publishers' "showcase" monthly comic books had several different genres represented, "Top Notch" had its Superhero, Detective, Military/Spy, and, of course its Sci Fi series.  It was missing a Western series, so, on the verge of WWII, it could have 2 military Combat series.  Scott Rand has a Time Machine, so his adventures have the possibility to be more interesting to readers by having more variability in their settings.  The machine's inventor(Dr. Meade), and Rand's boss, decided they would first go to Rome, at the height of The Empire, in 200 A.D.  (I would have chosen A.D. 117).  And the author has a Viking (Scandinavian-or North Germanic) attack on the capital city.  The time machine (which seems also to be a rocket ship) flies over Rome's harbour, and views a Viking longboat.  I'm sure they didn't have longboats that could make cross-sea voyages at that early date (only smaller boats that could hug the shore).  Rand and Dr. Meade rescue the last Viking into their ship, and converse with him in "Old Latin".  Then they set the timer to Ancient Egypt, where they find a young woman being sacrificed on The Egyptian god Ishtar's altar.  (Actually, Ishtar was a Canaanite god - NOT Egyptian). Rand and Thor rescue the woman, but they are trapped by a large group of Egyptians. But Meade shoots them all down with a machine gun, from the Rocket Ship.  Meade suspends the ship in a "timeless zone", so they can teach the woman and Thor English.  After seemingly hundreds or thousands of "timeless" hours, they have learned enough to communicate, and the group travels to the time of the dinosaurs (only 10 million years ago).  Some very funny-looking dinosaurs.  As usual, the research done for comic book stories in the late 1930s and early '40s is pretty weak (if any was done at all).  As the episode ends Meade sets the dial to 1940 A.D. 

The artwork is variable from very good to weak.  The story idea is good. But it could have been carried out much better. 

Sports personality Page - Boxer, Joe Louis
Good bit of information, excellent likenesses of Louis and Lou Nova (drawn from photos, no doubt).

Swift of The Secret Service
Is that REALLY a WWII US Navy Admiral's uniform????  It looks, to me, more like a European one from the late 1800s.  This is only a 6-page story.  So, it is very short and choppy, but to the point.  As a storywriter and artist, I would rather have had at least 10 pages to tell this story.  Even 2 more would have helped a lot.  Reminds me of "Dragnet" (Badge 714).  Jack Webb.  Boom!   Boom! Boom!  Boom!  "Just the facts, Ma'm!"  No extras whatsoever!

Jungle Town Show Boat
nice, cartoony, artwork by Dick Ryan.  Just as it was in Chesler and Centaur books.  he worked for MLJ for a few years, too.  Silly gags.  But interesting late 1800s-style cartoon art.

Air Patrol - Sky Raiders of The Western Front
The British and Americans were way behind The Germans in aircraft technology at the start of WWII.  The hero fighter pilot has a flashback to his youth during WWI, but the transition from panels set in the story's current timeframe and those from the flashback are not marked in ANY way (no narrative boxes, footnotes or other indications).  I guess comic book story writers were still just experimenting at this time.  But, if I am not mistaken breaks between time gaps and flashbacks had already been used in newspaper comic strip continuing stories more than several years before 1941 (probably as far back as the beginning of the 1930s, or even during the 1920s).  So, there is no valid excuse for this oversight that is awkward for the reader, and takes him or her out of "living in" the flow of the story.  However, I DO like the plot device of having a WWI bad experience by the hero with a villain, give him the chance to inflict punishment on him.  The artwork is very nice, and the action is excellent.  It held my interest all the way.  But, sadly that just points out that the episode is excruciatingly short (at only 5 pages).

Murder Rap - Lucky Coyne Text Story
A super-long 4 pager text Lucky Coyne Detective story.  I looked forward to this, as I have generally liked the plots and story telling in action-based GA comics text stories more than the fully-drawn comics stories (probably because the cartoon stories generally have way too few pages to avoid being choppy and leaving out pertinent information).  I first read Lucky Coyne as a mid 1940s Canadian Dime Comics reissue of the US Chesler or Centaur comic (probably Dynamic).  The story was quite complicated for such a short story (even given four pages of text.  It was okay, but nothing special.  Kind of unbelievable
that one detective could enter a room filled with 4 thugs, and defeat them, and bring them ALL to the police station to be arrested, only with a little help from an 18 year old girl, who was on the thugs' side when he entered their hotel room.

Lucky Coyne - Undercover Man
Coyne, disguised as hood, Bat Yardley, pretends to deliver Jewels stolen from a Robbery to a gang waiting in his hotel room, and sets them up to be arrested.  He only uses a slightly-different coloured and textured wig as his disguise.  He has a girlfriend who also is a government secret agent (FBI?), who doubles as a gang moll, and her disguise is a slightly different-coloured wig.  Why is it that full-haired wigs ATOP one's own full head of hair, fills EXACTLY the SAME volume that the natural head of hair does.  EVEN IF the wig is pulled down to the point of pressing on the head enough to cause a headache, shouldn't the total of the 2 heads of hair be at LEAST 1.5 times as voluminous alone head of hair???

Lonesome Luke Gag
Terribly boring, and unfunny gag.  The artwork is nice, but wasted.

The Mystic
With the success of turban topped mystics at the beginning of the 1940s, almost every publisher had their mysterious Eastern mystic in one or another of their showcase anthology monthlies.  But, I am shocked that MLJ didn't give theirs a catchy and exotic-sounding name, to try to make him memorable.  And the villains are just referred to as the generic "The Gang", instead of giving them a terrifying -sounding gang leader name, and gang name that would provide some colour and memorability.  Naturally, The Mystic, in addition to having mystical powers (sees all, knows all), and probably can communicate through mental telepathy, but he is, of course, an escape artist. 

They have the weirdly-worded, passively constructed narrative panels (i.e. "Into the car the couple jump.").  Then they have whole pages of weirdly-constructed narratives stating exactly what the reader can clearly see in the panel drawings.  A big No-No! - according to every story editor I've ever had.  And some panels are totally wasted, when they could be used to show more pertinent action.  The Mystic and his ladyfriend were captured by the gang, and placed in his stage act's "escape coffin", and throw it into the ocean (ostensibly to drown them).  But, of course, they use his trick open side to escape, and the story ends abruptly, without the criminals coming to justice.  And the author wasted the last 2 panels with The Mystic explaining to his lady how he saved them.  At LEAST, they could have used the last 2 panels to explain how they escaped to the criminals, who are in a jail cell, saying "Bah!" and "Curses!"

What an absolutely terribly constructed excuse for a story!  It is an example of just about everything to NOT do!

The West Pointer
We get the story of a hard-working, poor, young man who wants to attend West Point Academy, and become a US Army officer. The bulk of the story shows highlights of his sporting achievements at West Point. It's basically the set-up introduction for the series.  It's a bit dull, and the artwork is bland.  The figures are well-proportioned and move well in the action scenes, but there is very little detail in the faces, and very sparse backgrounds. 

Impy Gag
Nice art, as usual.  But not a very clever or interesting gag.

Speaking of Sports
Mildly interesting US sports facts.

Manhunters - Case 1 - Master Forgers
True Stories from The US FBI Files?  We learn how some forgers were caught.  Interesting information about forgery technology from 100 to 75 years ago.  The artwork is passable, but a bit crude.

Pokey Kangaroo Gag
Another well-drawn, but boring Funny Animal, rhyming narrative, gag page by Dick Ryan.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 12:10:02 AM by Robb_K »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2022, 09:51:26 PM »

Quote
That jibes with the fact that it has been stated many times that US Military Intelligence actually knew about The Japanese plans to bomb Pearl Harbor well before, but didn't do anything about it, as they wanted an excuse to declare war on not only Japan, but also Germany.  The fact that The US Navy had its three giant aircraft carriers away at sea, on maneuvers at the time of the attack (allowing them to keep their naval power edge over The Japanese Navy, seems more than a lucky coincidence, and supports the theory of "allowing" the attack to result in such large destruction.

that is a conspiracy theory which personally offends me a great deal.
This sort of thing should never be stated as a fact, since it is pure speculation, no matter how many times it has been 'stated'. 
Rather say, 'It has been postulated'. That's how gossip becomes translated as indisputable fact. A well-known propaganda technique. 
1/ The fact that Japan attacked when a great part of the fleet was out at sea, would be a sensible logistical decision on the part of the attacking admiral. The kind of decision that has been made by aggressors as long as we have had warfare.
2/ It also a constant that nations that consider themselves invulnerable discount and dismiss the possibility that an enemy would even consider attacking them even in the face of credible intelligence to the contrary.     
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 10:02:27 PM by The Australian Panther »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2022, 11:40:17 PM »


Quote
That jibes with the fact that it has been stated many times that US Military Intelligence actually knew about The Japanese plans to bomb Pearl Harbor well before, but didn't do anything about it, as they wanted an excuse to declare war on not only Japan, but also Germany.  The fact that The US Navy had its three giant aircraft carriers away at sea, on maneuvers at the time of the attack (allowing them to keep their naval power edge over The Japanese Navy, seems more than a lucky coincidence, and supports the theory of "allowing" the attack to result in such large destruction.

that is a conspiracy theory which personally offends me a great deal.
This sort of thing should never be stated as a fact, since it is pure speculation, no matter how many times it has been 'stated'. 
Rather say, 'It has been postulated'. That's how gossip becomes translated as indisputable fact. A well-known propaganda technique. 
1/ The fact that Japan attacked when a great part of the fleet was out at sea, would be a sensible logistical decision on the part of the attacking admiral. The kind of decision that has been made by aggressors as long as we have had warfare.
2/ It also a constant that nations that consider themselves invulnerable discount and dismiss the possibility that an enemy would even consider attacking them even in the face of credible intelligence to the contrary.   

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that it was "a fact" that The US Military leaders DELIBERATELY allowed such a large amount of destruction of their naval fleet, and such a lot of lives lost.  But, if I remember correctly, it was reported by well-respected authorities that at least one US Military Intelligence agent did report that The Japanese had made a plan to attack Pearl Harbor.  I did say that having their 3 aircraft carriers away could support the THEORY of "allowing" the attack.  But, your point is well taken.  So, I have changed my wording to make it clear that I did not mean to imply that it has been "proven" to be fact.  It would be difficult to come up with an idea of what The US military could have done instead of what they did.  They were in no position to make a pre-emptive attack.  And they certainly couldn't have left Hawaii unprotected by sending their battleships out to sea, eastward towards safety of The US West Coast, especially as even if they believed that the report or reports were true, they could not be sure of when the attack would come, EVEN if the reports mentioned a planned attack date.  Enemy intelligence always intentionally leaks false information to keep their foes guessing from among many possibilities.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2022, 12:43:46 AM »


But I take it you've never been fat?  ;)

LOL! Although that came after high school so I probably don't react to fat comments the same way people who spent their formative years overweight do. (School bullies picked on me for other reasons.)


This is yet another late 1930s US spy story which presages Japanese plans to attack The US Military bases in Hawaii (specifically, Pearl Harbor).

Wasn't Pearl Harbor the biggest US base in the Pacific? It certainly seems to be the most centrally located (they could send out ships east/west/north/south as support) so it just seems like it would be a natural target.

The Uncle Sam story in this issue of National Comics is probably the last comic story to use a fictional attack on Pearl Harbor. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27922
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2022, 01:49:03 AM »



But I take it you've never been fat?  ;)

LOL! Although that came after high school so I probably don't react to fat comments the same way people who spent their formative years overweight do. (School bullies picked on me for other reasons.)


Well now you've got me pegged! Yes I was a fat kid, though school bullies also picked on me for being poor (I'd been stupid enough to win a scholarship to what the UK call a "public" school .)
If those had really been the happiest days of my life I'd've slit my wrists long ago! :D
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2022, 04:19:18 AM »



This is yet another late 1930s US spy story which presages Japanese plans to attack The US Military bases in Hawaii (specifically, Pearl Harbor).

Wasn't Pearl Harbor the biggest US base in the Pacific? It certainly seems to be the most centrally located (they could send out ships east/west/north/south as support) so it just seems like it would be a natural target.

The Uncle Sam story in this issue of National Comics is probably the last comic story to use a fictional attack on Pearl Harbor. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27922


Of course it was a natural target.  And it was obvious to many, many people that The Japanese were placed in a terrible position for their war efforts in China by The US placing a ban on selling them oil and other petroleum products.  And they also knew that USA would not sit back and allow them to take over much of The Pacific Rim Area and Southeast Asia.  So, to be able to further their military plans in Asia, they would need to keep The Americans' striking force incapable of striking there, effectively, for as long as possible, while they, themselves would be conquering additional areas, containing the resources they needed.  Of course, it was a poor (irrational) strategy and overall plan, given the industrial power, manpower, and other resources of The US, Britain, Australia, and Canada.  But, they were hoping that The Germans would quickly knock Russia out of the war, and immediately afterward turn their newly greatly-increased resources in a full concentration on knocking Britain out of the war, as well. 

In any case, a LOT of Americans were worried about The Japanese making an attack on Pearl Harbor, some time in 1940 or 1941. They just didn't know when it would occur.  There were even blackouts all along The West Coast of USA, expecting bombing attacks by The Japanese, despite the latter having no land base within flying range.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2022, 04:31:42 AM »

Quote
Yes I was a fat kid, though school bullies also picked on me....   

Back in the day, you were looked askance upon if you wore glasses. I didn't only wear glasses, for a while I also wore a patch over one eye as well, so I got called four-eyes and specs and yes, I was bullied.
Oh, and at one point, I was also bullied by a fat kid who sat on me at lunch hour. believe it, or don't! 

cheers! 
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2022, 04:49:15 AM »



But I take it you've never been fat?  ;)

LOL! Although that came after high school so I probably don't react to fat comments the same way people who spent their formative years overweight do. (School bullies picked on me for other reasons.)


This is yet another late 1930s US spy story which presages Japanese plans to attack The US Military bases in Hawaii (specifically, Pearl Harbor).

Wasn't Pearl Harbor the biggest US base in the Pacific? It certainly seems to be the most centrally located (they could send out ships east/west/north/south as support) so it just seems like it would be a natural target.

The Uncle Sam story in this issue of National Comics is probably the last comic story to use a fictional attack on Pearl Harbor. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27922


The listed shelf date of that book is December 1941.  It had to have been bound, ready for sale only about 6-7 weeks before the actual attack occurred!  That means it must have been written roughly only about 3 months or a little more before the attack.  And, despite the stories not stating in words that the "invaders" in Hawaii and Maine were from real, currently existing countries (just called "the enemy"), it was very clear that they were The Japanese and The Germans, even using facsimiles of their current military uniforms.  It's difficult to believe that such treatment would be any less controversial than actually stating which countries they were from.  They were just defending their own land and people.  But it seems that this would have been fodder for The US anti-war factions to claim that the book (and, thus, its publishers) were advocating that USA should join The Allies in The Wars against Germany and Japan.  I'm also not sure how much less of an offence to The Governments of Germany and Japan this would be than actually saying outright the names of the attacking military units' home countries.  But, I think that their agents and "friendly locals" operating in USA at that time, had a LOT more things to do than check through every American comic book issue to find offending material.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #96 on: September 18, 2022, 05:02:35 AM »


Quote
Yes I was a fat kid, though school bullies also picked on me....   

Back in the day, you were looked askance upon if you wore glasses. I didn't only wear glasses, for a while I also wore a patch over one eye as well, so I got called four-eyes and specs and yes, I was bullied.
Oh, and at one point, I was also bullied by a fat kid who sat on me at lunch hour. believe it, or don't! 

cheers!


Yes, bullies will use ANY excuse they can find to pick on someone, to take the onus off themselves and their own perceived inadequacy.  Personally, I would have thought wearing a patch would make you look "cool", because you'd look like a pirate!  Of course that would work best with boys of younger ages.  I was picked on, too.  Because my family and I were Jewish.  Well, we all survived it and still managed to become upstanding citizens, which, I suspect, might not be a good description of how those bullies turned out. 
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2022, 05:15:02 AM »

Scrounge, Robb, Kingcat and myself were also (obviously) readers - that never made you popular, the word 'Nerd' did not exist then, and the Nerd 'type'; was definitely not celebrated as it is now. 
Cheer!   
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2022, 05:53:14 AM »


Scrounge, Robb, Kingcat and myself were also (obviously) readers - that never made you popular, the word 'Nerd' did not exist then, and the Nerd 'type'; was definitely not celebrated as it is now. 
Cheer!   


No, but in my time, they called you a "teacher's pet" if you got good academic grades, or if you were a tattler, or chummy with the teachers.  I got good grades, but I was also good enough at sports, and neither a tattler nor teacher's pet.  But that meant zilch to kids from homes that were taught to hate others because they are "different", or bear the sins of their long gone forefathers.  In any case, I know that, at least, during the late 1940s through the 1960s, in USA, The UK, Canada, and Australia, being bullied is just one of the things a LOT of the young boys must go through.  Even if they have no problem in their own class and grade level, insecure older boys will pick on younger boys, because the can. I found that the "prove yourself" fighting was more extensive and common in USA than in Canada.  But in The Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia and Germany (at least since WWII), it was quite a bit less violent for schoolboys than I witnessed in Canada and USA.  I guess the level depends upon the academic level of the school, strictness of the parents in one's neighbourhood, and economic level of the families in the neighbourhood or of the schoolboys. Fights in my schools in Canada were much, much more common than they were in The Netherlands, and those in my cousins schools in USA were even more common than in Canada.  My friends in Scandinavia and Germany told me that fights were almost unknown in elementary (basis) school when they attended (from the end of the 1940s through to the early 1960s.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #279 Wonderworld & Top Notch comics
« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2022, 06:09:06 AM »

Wonderworld Comics 07
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=60250
The Flame
This story is so nonsensical that Eisner and Fine would probably prefer to never speak of it again.
Attack on the Infidels
‘Except for that Hindu costume you wear’
Except that Hindus don’t wear Turbans. Sikhs wear turbans.
Because of general ignorance an innocent Sikh was murdered in the Heartland of the USA after 9/11 in the mistaken belief that he was a Muslim terrorist!   

Read more at: https://www.ultraswank.net/film/korla-pandit-the-godfather-of-exotica/
https://pictolic.com/en/article/why-do-the-people-of-india-wear-a-turban-we-reveal-the-secret-of-a-spectacular-headdress.
Yarko the Great
can do anything apparently, makes you wonder why he needs a helper or even the army to come to the rescue.
Shorty Shortcake
Doesn’t appeal to me at all. Doesn’t have anything unique about it  that grabs my interest. 

Sabotage On the Northern Clipper [Patty O'Day]
I note she is a Newsreel reporter, not a newspaper reporter. I know photography, but I don't recognize that camera, can anybody enlighten me?
While the dialogue is obvious and dull, the story isn't too bad, the art is bad, but does the trick.
I also note that Patty gets the credit and does all the thinking, but its the man who does the physical work and the rescue!
Dr. Fung The Villain is another 'Hindu' in a turban - in a country which is predominantly Buddhist!
These stories are so elementary, that it's embarrassing trying to write anything significant about them.
Tommy Taylor in India
Those two spot illos might well be Bob Powell, they are certainly about the best art in the book.
A Hot Lead Rumba On "Crazy Woman Creek"
Also, simple, obvious and dull!
A Day at the Circus
Quite like this, it amuses me! Straight slapstick.
The Plot to Take the Philippines (5 pages)
Japanese invasion of the Philippines happened immediately after Pearl Harbour in 1941.
So, another prophetic story. Eisner must have been keeping up with news reports.   
Diamonds of Death
Another comic done strictly by the numbers.
"Spark" Stevens
Tapping out Morse code with castenets? If you say so.
So, overall we get a picture that Eisner and Co, were knocking them out, in this perioud, as fast as they could with no regard to quality at all.
Can I just point out, that the number of 'views' on this fortnight's choice is up to 1445. If you are out there, thanks for checking us out and having a read, and please feel free to join in and comment!
Anyhoo, Something new tomorrow, from me, since Robb has other things to take up his time. Thanks Robb!   


       
   
   
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 06:12:55 AM by The Australian Panther »
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