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Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6  (Read 5041 times)

The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2022, 11:49:33 AM »

QQ said,
Quote
my biggest claim to fame is that I had my picture in the newspaper with Judith Durham when I was 7.
Thank you for sharing that. What an experience for a 7 year-old.
Obviously the Seekers weren't high on my list of faves, but I respect talent and they had it.
You may not be aware, but Judith Durham was much more interested in Jazz than folk, and presently Jazz, and female Jazz vocalists are high on my radar.
Here is Judith the Jazzer!
Judith Durham(Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers)Trombone Frankie 1963
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZOt285TNSc

Judith Durham - Cake Walkin' Babies From Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUiyGe_QxEY

A short-haired Judith singing jazz with Ron on piano. Singing Basin Street Blues and A Good Man is Hard to Find.+ Interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qio8NI7CK0I
Enjoy!
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2022, 05:50:44 PM »


QQ said,
Quote
my biggest claim to fame is that I had my picture in the newspaper with Judith Durham when I was 7.
Thank you for sharing that. What an experience for a 7 year-old.
Obviously the Seekers weren't high on my list of faves, but I respect talent and they had it.
You may not be aware, but Judith Durham was much more interested in Jazz than folk, and presently Jazz, and female Jazz vocalists are high on my radar.
Here is Judith the Jazzer!
Judith Durham(Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers)Trombone Frankie 1963
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZOt285TNSc

Judith Durham - Cake Walkin' Babies From Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUiyGe_QxEY

A short-haired Judith singing jazz with Ron on piano. Singing Basin Street Blues and A Good Man is Hard to Find.+ Interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qio8NI7CK0I
Enjoy!

Wow! I didn't know she sang with a Dixieland band!  She always had a very good musically trained voice which would be good for any genre of music.  I like the third song the best.  It's more my style than Dixieland and Ragtime. 
Yes, taking a photo with famous singers would be quite a thrill for a very young fan.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2022, 12:16:28 AM »

Wilbur #1

Cover
Ah, comedy sociopathy, the good old days when you could bash someone's head in with a flowerpot and people laugh rather than call the cops.  ;)
Some odd art choices on the cover. Did we really need a full body shot of Red? It might have worked better as an inset panel and use the rest  for Wilbur and Linda. What was that flower pot made of? I've had those things break from a small drop, I'd expect it to shatter being hit on Wilbur's head. Instead it appears to be held by Wilbur's hair (strong hair creme?). Linda appears to be walking away from the wall instead of Wilbur.

Wilbur Makes a Date
A rewrite & redraw of an Archie story. Otherwise fun, but I've read it several times, including a Bell Features rip-off of the Archie version.

The Bus Boy
Okay Archie-style shenanigans.

The Ghost Smasher
Eh, okay, but nothing special.

Chimpy
Funny how the giant died, but we didn't see his corpse. I suspect the writer didn't spend much time writing this story, just keep it frantic enough to keep people reading and get it over with. Boom!

A Wilbur Short
Hmmmm... is this not long enough, or not short enough. Was mucilage a common enough substance that the readers of the time wouldn't need to look it up?

A Fish Story
How long did fish last in the 1940s before spoiling? I get the feeling that the writers, artists and editors really didn't know or care.

Omar of Bagdad
Kind of feels like the kind of movie plot Bob Hope or some other comedian might be in.

Violinist story
At the beginning of the story Mr. Wilkin wonders why Wilbur doesn't play the violin, then when Wilbur does he's against it. They really should have had Mrs. Wilkin ask Wilbur at the beginning rather than Mr. Wilkin and avoid the contradiction.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2022, 12:43:58 AM »

It's fascinating to discover a few more readers with musical inclinations (even DJing counts, Panther!) I know there's one more of "us" out there but I'm not going  to "out" you unless you choose to reveal yourself!

I know tastes differ, but I suspect I'd be happy with a playlist drawn up by the Panther or paw broon, though I'd like to think that makes me a seriously groovy old fart!

Surprisingly (?) I have a soft spot for The Seekers, my late wife and I used to do several of their songs in our band playing the West London clubs in the 80s.

And for those who didn't know, Sugar Sugar was co-written by Andy Kim, who had a hit of his own with Rock Me Gently, which for my money beats the Archies into a cocked hat, whatever that means!

This UK TV clip opens with disgraced DJ Jimmy Savile dancing with a member of the audience, but try to ignore that and focus on the arrangement, particularly the cool clavinet solo! Enjoy!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ym3RlvVR9M

And SS, yes I would think that mucilage was relatively well know in the day, it's a sticky substance used to complete hand rolled cigarettes with, before they invented  gummed papers. It features heavily in a Cornell Woolrich story called (if memory serves) Kiss Of The Cobra Woman, where it's used to convey her poisonous secretions to her unsuspecting victims. Check it out.

All the best
K1ngcat
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 12:53:54 AM by K1ngcat »
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2022, 01:41:33 AM »

I actually liked the art in the WILBER book better than ANDY HARDY. Got through the first story and liked some of the panels in WILBER, but pretty much scanned the rest. ANDY HARDY I took a dive into twice and only got through the first half of the first story.

I had just seen one of the last ANDY HARDY movies the other month on TCM and was pretty much able to sit through that, but nothing held my interest in the comic. WILBER was a bit more interesting from a mechanical stand point; which elements they tried to clone from Archie and figuring out the reasons why. 

I never figured out who bought ARCHIE comics, or why. They were just THERE, like an interstate highway. My sister had them and I ‘d sneak looks at them. I got good enough to figure out there were better artists than others, and a few years later could spot a Dan DeCarlo from a Bob Montana, that kind of thing.

So maybe that’s why I found WILBER more interesting. I would be wondering how the artists work would look doing the company’s REAL thing. ANDY HARDY was already running out of steam and just waiting to come in for a final landing.

And ‘Super, I remember the escort agency story from ARCHIE too

Both were a quick diversion and in their way, fun. Just wished there had been more ads. 
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2022, 05:17:43 AM »



A Wilbur Short
Hmmmm... is this not long enough, or not short enough. Was mucilage a common enough substance that the readers of the time wouldn't need to look it up?



A common paper glue of the day. It was the main glue available in schools for any work involving gluing paper to paper, though it went by a brand name. I think it had a cow on the label. Possibly made from boiling cow hooves. Some glues were made from horse hooves, the origin of "sent her on to the glue factory" ending for elderly horses.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2022, 07:30:25 AM »


Wilbur #1

Cover
Ah, comedy sociopathy, the good old days when you could bash someone's head in with a flowerpot and people laugh rather than call the cops.  ;)
Some odd art choices on the cover. Did we really need a full body shot of Red? It might have worked better as an inset panel and use the rest  for Wilbur and Linda. (1) What was that flower pot made of? I've had those things break from a small drop, I'd expect it to shatter being hit on Wilbur's head. Instead it appears to be held by Wilbur's hair (2) (strong hair creme?). (3) Linda appears to be walking away from the wall instead of Wilbur.

Wilbur Makes a Date
A rewrite & redraw of an Archie story. Otherwise fun, but I've read it several times,
(4) including a Bell Features rip-off of the Archie version.

The Bus Boy
Okay Archie-style shenanigans.

The Ghost Smasher
Eh, okay, but nothing special.

Chimpy
Funny how the giant died, but we didn't see his corpse. I suspect the writer didn't spend much time writing this story, just keep it frantic enough to keep people reading and get it over with. Boom!

A Wilbur Short
Hmmmm... is this not long enough, or not short enough.
(5) Was mucilage a common enough substance that the readers of the time wouldn't need to look it up?

A Fish Story
(5) How long did fish last in the 1940s before spoiling? I get the feeling that the writers, artists and editors really didn't know or care.

Omar of Bagdad
Kind of feels like the kind of movie plot Bob Hope or some other comedian might be in.

Violinist story
At the beginning of the story Mr. Wilkin wonders why Wilbur doesn't play the violin, then when Wilbur does he's against it. They really should have had Mrs. Wilkin ask Wilbur at the beginning rather than Mr. Wilkin and avoid the contradiction.


(1) That looks like a low-cost standard clay flowerpot. It might break from a hard knock on someone's head, but also might not. The other choice back then was glazed pottery, with is a lot heavier and stronger.

(2) That hair cream must have been Dixie Peach Pomade, which held straightened kinky hair in place, or Brylcreem, which contained mostly beeswax (which incidentally, was a British invention by a chemical company in Birmingham).  It was incredibly sticky! I used to use it.  Lots of the boys used it.  That was the source of the term, "Greasers", The Wasps used to mock the Italian toughs (gang members) in New York during the 1940s and 1950s for using it in their long, jet-black hair.  It was very popular all over USA and Canada.  It kept my hair from freezing on really cold days!   ;D

(3) I agree with you, Scrounge, 100% on this point.  The staging on the front cover is TERRIBLE.  Are we supposed to believe that Linda is autistic, and always walks alongside the walls in every room, as part of her daily organisation regimen?  You're right that an easy solution would have been to have Red in a small box in the top left corner, above Wilbur's head, so the scene containing both Wilbur and Linda could use the entire width of the cover to change the angle of Linda's path away from Wilbur.  It is amazing how weak many of the young artists were at staging and other basic illustration skills back in the early days of comic books.  But, I would not have expected Bill Vigoda to make that mistake.

(4) Was that a Bell Features Canadian White book that contained the Archie ripped-off story?  If so, which title and number, and which feature?  It doesn't seem to ring a bell with me (no pun intended!). 

(5) As you probably know, fish deteriorates in normal ambient temperature, significantly faster than other  varieties of meat.  Back in the early 1940s, many families in Canada, and probably a decent number in USA, as well, did not yet have electric refrigerators.  They still had ice boxes (a wood cabinet with thick walls, lined inside by metal, with a heavy, thick metal door and latch reminiscent of a bank vault door.  You would put your perishable food inside, with ice blocks keeping it cool.  Lots of houses built in the 1920s and 1930s had built-in ice boxes.  Ours did, although we did have an electric refrigerator.  But, in the late 1940s there were still a fair amount of people in our neighbourhood who didn't yet have refrigerators, and were still using ice boxes.  But, in Winnipeg, back then , before Global Warming, we had 4.5 to 5 months with snow on the ground and much of that with lakes and ponds still frozen.  Certainly, the underground caves where the ice was stored still contained lots of ice.

Back in the 1940s, a lot of people left meat and other perishables out in room temperature.  But fish spoils much faster, and no shaved ice came pouring out of the fish barrel when it opened up in the street.  So it was realistic that a few hours of the Fish Monger's putting it in the barrel and Wilbur taking it, and the sitting time while he tried to fix the tyre.  And then he probably took another half hour to gather the fish back and toss it into the barrel.  His angry father wasn't likely to offer to help him with that.  So, the fish probably wouldn't have been accepted by it's customers who had ordered it.  And it would have been at room temperature too long to be saleable to new customers.  Fish was always shipped in ice, and kept that way until handed to the customer.  You may be right that the writers of comic book stories wouldn't bother to take the time to even think about that.  But I think that aspect of this story was totally realistic (but the fish monger was negligent in not having ice in the delivery barrel.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 08:11:38 AM by Robb_K »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2022, 08:02:37 AM »


It's fascinating to discover a few more readers with musical inclinations (even DJing counts, Panther!) I know there's one more of "us" out there but I'm not going  to "out" you unless you choose to reveal yourself!

I know tastes differ, but I suspect I'd be happy with a playlist drawn up by the Panther or paw broon, though I'd like to think that makes me a seriously groovy old fart!

Surprisingly (?) I have a soft spot for The Seekers, (1) my late wife and I used to do several of their songs in our band playing the West London clubs in the 80s.

And for those who didn't know,(2) Sugar Sugar was co-written by Andy Kim, who had a hit of his own with Rock Me Gently, which for my money beats the Archies into a cocked hat, whatever that means!

This UK TV clip opens with disgraced DJ Jimmy Savile dancing with a member of the audience, but try to ignore that and focus on the arrangement, particularly the cool clavinet solo! Enjoy!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ym3RlvVR9M

And SS, (3) yes I would think that mucilage was relatively well known in the day, it's a sticky substance used to complete hand rolled cigarettes with, before they invented  gummed papers. It features heavily in a Cornell Woolrich story called (if memory serves) Kiss Of The Cobra Woman, where it's used to convey her poisonous secretions to her unsuspecting victims. Check it out.

All the best
K1ngcat


(1) Wow! Kingcat!  I knew you had played in a band, but I didn't know you had performed in nightclubs in The West End of London!  That is quite an accomplishment. 

Although our record company in the early 1980s which recorded almost exclusively Soul dance club music, leased a British act's record.  They were a hot act in a fringe rock dance club scene based on Horror.  The kids would dress up in film horror villains' outfits and go to a few special clubs in London's West End.  It was an offshoot of The "Punk' scene.  The group was called "Pleasure and The Beast".  Do you remember them?  I forget the name of the club where they appeared.  But it had a rather decent size, so it must have been well-known.  Maybe it featured Mersey-Beat acts during the '60s.  I attended a few shows there.  The music was horrible.  But I thought that about all Punk music.  Our label, Airwave Records, had a couple decent-sized Soul hits in Germany, Belgium and Holland, during 1982 and '83.

(2) Ha! Ha! No surprise!  Andy Kim was The King of The Bubble Gum stars!   ;D

(3) I knew what mucilage was at age 6. It worked well with paper.  But it wasn't permanent.  After it got dried out, after a long time, its clinging power stopped, and it fell off whatever it was holding.  Sort of similar to how old clear tape falls off after years of drying out.   That was our main glue in elementary school - other than that messy white liquid paste.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2022, 04:39:03 PM »

Hi Robb, it's kind of you to imagine I was playing night clubs in the West End, I should've let you keep that illusion. In fact we were playing Working Men's clubs, RBL, or politically affiliated clubs in the West of London. Not so glitzy, but great fun and pretty well paid at the time  :)
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2022, 09:45:30 PM »


Hi Robb, it's kind of you to imagine I was playing night clubs in the West End, I should've let you keep that illusion. In fact we were playing Working Men's clubs, RBL, or politically affiliated clubs in the West of London. Not so glitzy, but great fun and pretty well paid at the time  :)

It's very impressive that you could work regularly as musicians (and singers?) earning money in a glamour field that everybody and his mother dreams of working in.  You were professionals, EVEN if you didn't count on that source for the main portion of your income. 

For what does the acronym "RBL" stand?  I'm showing my age and lack of connection with today's World.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2022, 10:29:12 PM »

Andy Hardy #6

First story - Cute gag, although in real life that mermaid decal would be very blurry since it's so close to the wearer's eyes.

Second story - I get the feeling the writer wanted an Andy as slave situation and then contrived a not very well thought out way to make it happen.

Third story - Okay story, but I wanted to see Andy deal with all those angry women he set up on a blind date.

Fourth story - You know, pre-internet people used to send pictures through the mail, especially wedding pictures, so it's plot-convenient that Andy's mom doesn't have a picture of her sister-in-law (or brother as Andy didn't seem to recognize his uncle).

Fifth story - Okay.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2022, 11:20:35 PM »

Years ago in Writer's Digest there was an article by a woman who wrote books about teenage girls and she thought that was her audience, until she had her first book signing and there were all these pre-teen girls lined up. The one teenage girl in line stated she was there because her younger sister who read the books was sick and couldn't come.
So pre-teens being the audience for teen humor makes sense, although older adults who just want something silly to read (or perhaps recapture their youth) would seem to be a secondary audience. My dad would buy the Archie Digests when they started coming out and I occasionally pull them out now when I want something funny to read. (I find the best Archie stories tend to come from the late-50s to the '60s, but your mileage may vary.)

People keep referring to Wilbur as an Archie clone, but he actually appeared first so he had an Archie makeover, rather than being created as a clone.

Robb, the Archie ripoff was the Chip Pipher story in Active Comics #19. If you compare the artwork you'll see Leo Bachle had one of those art tracers that put a mirrored image of the page down for him to trace.

Not much to say on music, but Sugar, Sugar was originally meant for the Monkees, who turned it down, so they turned to cartoon characters who couldn't say no.  ;)
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2022, 11:37:42 PM »



Obviously the Seekers weren't high on my list of faves, but I respect talent and they had it.
You may not be aware, but Judith Durham was much more interested in Jazz than folk, and presently Jazz, and female Jazz vocalists are high on my radar.
Here is Judith the Jazzer!


Hi Panther - Thanks for those links. Yes I did know that Judith was more interested in jazz, and alas, that's probably why she left The Seekers in the first place. I saw her in a solo concert in the 80s when Ron Edgeworth was still alive, and she did a range of material there accompanied by him on the piano. A few Seekers' songs, but mainly jazz and other work. She had a brilliant voice no matter what she sang. I like some jazz, especially some of the more jazz/blues artists, but I'll always be a folkie at heart.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2022, 11:39:03 PM »



Yes, taking a photo with famous singers would be quite a thrill for a very young fan.


Robb, to me she was the biggest star in the universe at that time, so it was the thrill of my life at the ripe old age of 7.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2022, 11:45:40 PM »


Wilbur #1

Cover
Ah, comedy sociopathy, the good old days when you could bash someone's head in with a flowerpot and people laugh rather than call the cops.  ;)
Some odd art choices on the cover. Did we really need a full body shot of Red? It might have worked better as an inset panel and use the rest  for Wilbur and Linda. What was that flower pot made of? I've had those things break from a small drop, I'd expect it to shatter being hit on Wilbur's head. Instead it appears to be held by Wilbur's hair (strong hair creme?). Linda appears to be walking away from the wall instead of Wilbur.



Yes, I wondered the same thing about having such a big pic of Red. Because I was unfamiliar with the character, I wasn't sure if that was just another shot of Wilbur to start with, but then I realised they had different hair colour. It probably would have been better if the Wilbur and Linda pic was the full cover, though I hadn't noticed the discrepancies until you pointed them out, SuperScrounge. Strong hair cream indeed. And the pot is lovely and symmetrical, like it's been placed there. Though some of the slapstick art in the interior was good.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2022, 11:55:26 PM »



And for those who didn't know, Sugar Sugar was co-written by Andy Kim, who had a hit of his own with Rock Me Gently, which for my money beats the Archies into a cocked hat, whatever that means!

This UK TV clip opens with disgraced DJ Jimmy Savile dancing with a member of the audience, but try to ignore that and focus on the arrangement, particularly the cool clavinet solo! Enjoy!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ym3RlvVR9M

And SS, yes I would think that mucilage was relatively well know in the day, it's a sticky substance used to complete hand rolled cigarettes with, before they invented  gummed papers. It features heavily in a Cornell Woolrich story called (if memory serves) Kiss Of The Cobra Woman, where it's used to convey her poisonous secretions to her unsuspecting victims. Check it out.

All the best
K1ngcat


Thanks for the clip, K1ngcat. I remember that song, but didn't know who sang it. It sounds like something Neil Diamond would have sung.

I looked up that Cornell Woolrich title and a burlesque act came up - LOL The actual title appears to be "Kiss of the Cobra". He of course wrote the short story that inspired Alfred Hitchcock's 'Rear Window', which is one of my favourite movies of all time (the original with Jimmy Stewart and Grace Kelly rather than the horrible remake). The short story is quite different, but the idea's there.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2022, 12:00:14 AM »



I had just seen one of the last ANDY HARDY movies the other month on TCM and was pretty much able to sit through that, but nothing held my interest in the comic.


I think I've seen almost all of the Andy Hardy movies. Back in the early 80s (I think), one of the TV stations here played one every Saturday until they ran out. Some stories were definitely better than others. Back in the old days of VHS, I owned the three Andy Hardy videos that also featured Judy Garland, and they were good. But then I also love the Judy and Mickey musical films and have some of those. So I was probably more of a Judy fan than a Mickey fan. The Andy Hardy comic book was enjoyable enough for me, but quite different to the movies.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2022, 12:05:06 AM »



(2) That hair cream must have been Dixie Peach Pomade, which held straightened kinky hair in place, or Brylcreem, which contained mostly beeswax (which incidentally, was a British invention by a chemical company in Birmingham).  It was incredibly sticky! I used to use it.  Lots of the boys used it.  That was the source of the term, "Greasers", The Wasps used to mock the Italian toughs (gang members) in New York during the 1940s and 1950s for using it in their long, jet-black hair.  It was very popular all over USA and Canada.  It kept my hair from freezing on really cold days!   ;D



Robb, my Dad is 90 and still uses Brylcreem. He lives in a nursing home, so I go the the pharmacy and buy it for him. If I ask one of the young assistants where it is, they don't know what I'm talking about  :D
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2022, 12:08:36 AM »


Andy Hardy #6

Third story - Okay story, but I wanted to see Andy deal with all those angry women he set up on a blind date.



Yes, I wondered about that too, SuperScrounge. And wouldn't they have been annoyed when they turned up to the meeting point and discovered a bunch of other women had been asked as well? They should have run Andy and Beezy out of town  :D
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2022, 12:09:38 AM »


(1) People keep referring to Wilbur as an Archie clone, but he actually appeared first so he had an Archie makeover, rather than being created as a clone.

Robb, the Archie ripoff was the Chip Pipher story in Active Comics #19. If you compare the artwork you'll see Leo Bachle had one of those art tracers that put a mirrored image of the page down for him to trace.

Not much to say on music, but (2) Sugar, Sugar was originally meant for the Monkees, who turned it down, so they turned to cartoon characters who couldn't say no.  ;)


(1) Wow! I thought Wilbur's first appearance in Zip Comics was after Archies first in Pep!  But, I wouldn't say Archie was a "makeover" of Wilbur, a mere 3 months later, given that BOTH their first 10+ appearances had them both mainly being teenaged boys who had a penchant for getting into trouble.  Both were a bit mischievous and playful, and a bit absent minded when thinking about girls, and both also sometimes got into trouble by mistake.  It took a while before Archie became developed into a much more well-rounded person and character, and a character who would engender a more empathetic response from readers.  IF MLJ had a conscious plan to give Wilbur an improvement makeover (who became Archie), Wilbur would have been completely dropped just after Archie first appeared.  It took some clever development by Archie's writers to round Archie out, and make him a more sympathetic character.  And that took some time.  And, it seems to me, that it was just pure happenstance that Archie became the more popular of the two, just because of which writers got assigned to which of the two books.

(2) I also didn't know that Sugar, Sugar! was meant for The Monkees.  I didn't like them at all, but they've jumped up a bit higher in my estimation, for turning down that emotionless song with no redeeming features.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2022, 12:14:47 AM »



Not much to say on music, but Sugar, Sugar was originally meant for the Monkees, who turned it down, so they turned to cartoon characters who couldn't say no.  ;)


Now there's another blast from the past. I'd heard that too, but had forgotten about it. They took themselves more as 'serious' musicians, and I did love 'I'm a Believer' (Neil Diamond) and 'I'm Not Your Steppin' Stone' (Boyce and Hart). I was a little too young to appreciate the humour of the TV show when it was first on, but I still sing along when one of their songs comes on the radio. Here's Steppin' Stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFUOnT0ZnUc

And who can forget Davy Jones's appearance on the Brady Bunch? Okay, all of you can (LOL), but it was my era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRNFus7Pbp4

And Mike Nesmith's mother invented Liquid Paper, so that's got to count for something  :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bette_Nesmith_Graham

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 12:21:19 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2022, 12:37:13 AM »

Wilbur Comics 01
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73214
That cover would certainly have attracted attention on the stand.
It's unusual to have a two-panel gag on the cover.
Going back to something pointed out in many comments here over the years, in a different context,Girls in Red Dresses on covers. Its so prevalent, that I just realized an simple explanation. Red gets your attention, and getting attention is the point of a cover, so at that time, probably part of a cover artist's technique.
Also unusual for depicting a very violent act by a female. It goes over the usual line for slapstick, because that is a very nasty graphic injury. Makes me grimace each time I look at it.
The one-pager.
A good artist observes and uses what he sees.
He has it exactly right that teenagers, when they try to sit still and read, keep moving around and end up in al sorts of ridiculous positions. I'd forgotten, but that brings back memories. 
But as far as anatomy and general skill, it looks like Bill V. was very much at the beginning of his career.       
Welcome To Westfield
Page I - visual gag unrelated to any story. I don't get that car to the right of the sign. Looking at the wheels, It's obviously been dumped there, so why is there a driver?   
Makes A Date
Turn over the intro page and we get a two page spread intro to the next story and everything we need to know is right there on those  pages. Not good art, but good visual story-telling in spite of it.
Signed by both artist and inker/writer.   
My feeling about thsi Wilber comic is that they creators were trying out things, still flexible, the character and his environment are not yet fixed. Clearly some of this ended up as part of the Archie mythos.
The Reggie-like practical joker, Wilbur's orange-checked pants,the bow-tie,the older female teacher with grey hair in a bun.
Do You Know?
Got the first one wrong, but the rest were obvious. Didn't try to find the mistakes.
The Bus Boy
Did girls still do the 'Drop the Handkerchief' routine in the 1940s?
Story is pretty straight-forward slapstick.
Chimpy
There are a lot of visual gags in this one. I have to think they are the property of the script and not the artists imagination, because visually the artist adds nothing and they fall flat.
A Wilbur short.
Pretty ordinary slapstick and a very flat ending.
A Fish Story
Straight slapstick again, and Bill is still learning to make it work visually. 
Omar Of Bagdad
Carl Hubble is not currently known for this kind of work. Wonder how much work like this he did?
Carl Hubbell
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/h/hubbell_carl.htm
I quite liked this, had a chuckle in a couple of places,which is more than I got out of the Wilbur stories.
I found myself wondering what happens next, which is always a good sign.
Darn Good Violinist.
A Flat ending. Like the music.

cheers!

   
         
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2022, 01:34:44 AM »

Wilbur Comics 01
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73214

What have I learned from this?
Well, I now have a great deal of respect for Harry Shorten the editor.
He clearly had a vision and a determination and he and his crew weren't afraid to learn and grow.
What's missing here?
All of the stories centre on Wilbur and are mostly all physical slapstick. There is nothing here to make you keep buying the book. 
Now I think about Archie,while he's not a bland and featureless character, he is really mainly the focal paint around whom most of the other characters are defined.
What are Jughead, Betty and Veronica, Reggie and the rest of the characters without their relationship with Archie?
Shorten and his team developed the Archie Mythos and it lasted from the 40's to the 80's without major changes and is still going today, albeit now with major changes.
The Artists matured and developed an in-house style,but the best were still good enough to have a recognizable style.
And each was assigned to a specific character
Bill Vigoda was the Reggie artist, Dan DeCarlo and Bob Parent for Betty and Veronica, Samm Schwartz fleahed out Jughead, Bob Montana and Harry Lucey on Archie.
All of these have an instantly recognizable style. Harry Lucey's work on Archie I always loved. Nothing ever stood still on his pages, the energy was amazing. The Jack Kirby of Teenage comedy art.
See, CB+ and these dialogues have made me realize how much comics appealed to me visually. It didn't matter to me if it was a funny animal, teenage, war, cowboy, detective, SF or Superhero comic, if it was visually and narrative good, that was what interested me.     
Harry Lucey
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/l/lucey_harry.htm
2 classic examples here. See what I mean about learning to use  the art to accentuate the gag?
By any other artist,the second gag wouldn't rate the space. He took nothing and made it into something.
That's why I love these artists.
Unfortunately, like most US conics, the current Archie work is writer dominated and that unique visual house style is kaput.
Cheers!                     
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2022, 01:48:02 AM »



Hi Robb, it's kind of you to imagine I was playing night clubs in the West End, I should've let you keep that illusion. In fact we were playing Working Men's clubs, RBL, or politically affiliated clubs in the West of London. Not so glitzy, but great fun and pretty well paid at the time  :)

It's very impressive that you could work regularly as musicians (and singers?) earning money in a glamour field that everybody and his mother dreams of working in.  You were professionals, EVEN if you didn't count on that source for the main portion of your income. 

For what does the acronym "RBL" stand?  I'm showing my age and lack of connection with today's World.


Hi Robb, that TLA isn't really connected with today's world. RBL stands for Royal British Legion, a lot of our gigs were ex-servicemens clubs. All these types of clubs used to pay well above the going rate as opposed to Rock Scene type gigs where a support band could end up taking no more than 10% of the gate, and then being charged for the "hire" of the house PA system. The "pay to play" scandal preyed heavily on young bands trying to make a name for themselves in the late 70s and early 80s. Even as late as around 2010, when I ran a fairly successful blues band in SE UK,  one promoter tried to offer me 25% of the gate, the rest going to the venue and herself. Naturally I declined, deferring to the old adage that "a man is worthy of his hire."

"Show business" in any form is not for the faint hearted!  ;)

All the best
K1ngcat
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #282 Wilbur 1 & Andy Hardy 6
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2022, 02:11:40 AM »




And for those who didn't know, Sugar Sugar was co-written by Andy Kim, who had a hit of his own with Rock Me Gently, which for my money beats the Archies into a cocked hat, whatever that means!

This UK TV clip opens with disgraced DJ Jimmy Savile dancing with a member of the audience, but try to ignore that and focus on the arrangement, particularly the cool clavinet solo! Enjoy!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ym3RlvVR9M

And SS, yes I would think that mucilage was relatively well know in the day, it's a sticky substance used to complete hand rolled cigarettes with, before they invented  gummed papers. It features heavily in a Cornell Woolrich story called (if memory serves) Kiss Of The Cobra Woman, where it's used to convey her poisonous secretions to her unsuspecting victims. Check it out.

All the best
K1ngcat


Thanks for the clip, K1ngcat. I remember that song, but didn't know who sang it. It sounds like something Neil Diamond would have sung.

I looked up that Cornell Woolrich title and a burlesque act came up - LOL The actual title appears to be "Kiss of the Cobra". He of course wrote the short story that inspired Alfred Hitchcock's 'Rear Window', which is one of my favourite movies of all time (the original with Jimmy Stewart and Grace Kelly rather than the horrible remake). The short story is quite different, but the idea's there.


I'm a great fan of Cornell Woolrich's work, and I'm certain that somewhere in CB+s collection of Police Comics there's a story (I fancy it was drawn by Vernon Henkel) that totally rips off the plot of Kiss of the Cobra, even quoting some of Woolrich's original lines. I know I made a comment to that effect when I first read it, but it'd take me hours to track down now!

I also remember The Night Has A Thousand Eyes, which was the title of a Woolrich tale made into a movie starring Edward G Robinson. The title was also used to name a hit single from American artist Bobby Vee, though the song's much less macabre than the story!

Thanks for sharing those Monkees tracks, and the news about Mike Nestmith's mother's invention, which was a total surprise to me.

All the best
K1ngcat
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