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Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities  (Read 2021 times)

K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2023, 01:11:57 AM »

The Yellow Kid

I'm grateful to everyone else for all the background info on the Yellow Kid, at least I understand the history of it a bit more now. Sadly the only parts of it that come across well on my viewer are the full-page Hogan's Alley illustrations which are great fun, plenty of detail and some chuckles in the placards and posters (where legible) though perhaps Outcalt's anatomy and perspective are a little loose at times. All I want to know is, who's the little girl in the pink nightshirt on page 35 who wants to play the pipe organ? Any relation?

Thanks for some interesting choices, SS.

All the best
K1ngcat
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2023, 04:44:57 AM »


The Yellow Kid

The few ethnic characters were drawn stereotypically, as you would expect from the times. Interesting to see the African-American lad holding a sign that read 'Down Wit Ingland', 'Down Wit Spane'. I'm not familiar with the political context of that era enough to know which particular 'War Scare' they're talking about in 1896, but I imagine a lot of the text with the comics in general would have been controversial at the time.

All in all, a very interesting snapshot of the times. This Aussie missed a lot of the references, but I can see it would have been very relevant to Americans at the time (though those being lampooned probably wouldn't have been fans).

Cheers
QQ


The US wanted all non-Western Hemisphere World powers out of North and South America.  They wanted the Cuban revolutionists to succeed in freeing themselves from Spanish rule.  They supported the revolutionaries, and used ANY pretext to enter into a war with Spain, hoping to gain some of their overseas colonies' territories as "compensation", as they had done in The US/Mexican War from 1836-1845, occupying much of the northern territories of that country.  They ended up taking over The Philippine Islands, Guam, and The Marianas Islands, Puerto Rico, and Cuba's freedom, with USA taking over a lot of trade (and a favoured nation trade status) with the new free nation, that had previously been the province of Spain.  There were rumours that The Americans blew up their own battleship to have an excuse to declare war upon Spain.

I can't imagine what problems the US public would have with Great Britain in 1896.  The British were constantly fighting wars with local native leaders, and their forces inside the borders of their colonies and protectorates.  That was a bit before The Boer War(1899), but right about the time that The British were fighting The Mahdi in The Anglo-Egyptian Sudan supposedly for The Egyptians' sake).  But, I rather think it was to rouse US public opinion on the situation in Hawaii, a supposed own sovereign nation, with its own native ruler (Queen), but was then a British protectorate.  Interestingly, with little fanfare, it was basically handed over to The US in 1898, after their Navy had occupied their main Islands, because their large sugar plantations' foreign owners wanted The US to occupy the country so they could get favoured treatment regarding tariffs on their produce, and they could also have local political power there (e.g.taking over power from the natives). 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 04:52:25 AM by Robb_K »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2023, 05:05:37 AM »


Hey, Q.Q.; talking of x rays and our changing viewpoint of them, did you guys have those x-ray foot machines in front of shoe stores? We did.

You stuck your foot through a hole at the bottom you could see your feet bones wiggle around on a peep show screen viewer.
You’d go back and forth. Get the other kids to do theirs.
Have them watch yours. Hours and hours of fun.
No lead shields. No nuthen’. Housed in nice respectable wooden panel boxes. Just like daddy’s cabinet stereo. And you were talking about collective delusion only in terms of the Cuban Missle Crisis.  I now imagine a blue light sabre ray pouring straight out of the thing search beam style. Someone told me there was another model that you put your foot into from the top, which allowed you to see your foot from the front, pretty much like the beginning of Monty Python with that big foot. Imagine the light sabre beam coming out of that.
Guess the ray would go straight up the leg, come to think of it.
There were also a lot of movies by the 30’s going with ‘cosmic rays’ that would give us lots of power for energy or travel. Where was Gyro Gearloose when we needed him?

Maybe they had those modern machines in large shoe stores and shoe departments in fancy department stores in Toronto and Montreal during the 1960s, but, I don't remember seeing them in the tiny local shoe store we patronised in Winnipeg during the 1950s.  I'm glad they didn't, now knowing about the dangers of too much exposure to X-rays. Did you live in The Toronto Metro Area?  And during what period did you see them?
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2023, 06:49:32 AM »

Quote
  The US wanted all non-Western Hemisphere World powers out of North and South America. 


Well, we are getting a bit far into political territory here, and some of us aren't to comfortable with it.
Still, - that was the 'Monroe Doctrine'
https://www.britannica.com/event/Monroe-Doctrine 

A pretty crucial element in the US's world view.

Quote
Monroe Doctrine, (December 2, 1823), cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy enunciated by Pres. James Monroe in his annual message to Congress. Declaring that the Old World and New World had different systems and must remain distinct spheres, Monroe made four basic points: (1) the United States would not interfere in the internal affairs of or the wars between European powers; (2) the United States recognized and would not interfere with existing colonies and dependencies in the Western Hemisphere; (3) the Western Hemisphere was closed to future colonization; and (4) any attempt by a European power to oppress or control any nation in the Western Hemisphere would be viewed as a hostile act against the United States: 

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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2023, 07:11:49 AM »

Robb, I saw mine in south western Ontario in the middle to late 60's. I think they were taken out because they WORE OUT. You know, like those tubes in the old black and white TV. Mom didn't like us to have too much to do with them. She was a nurse and shoo'd us away. But I have to thank her for that. Probably saved future generations from all sorts of damage. But she was like that. Before my uncle could stick his long needles into my arm during his hypnosis act, he had to sterilize them in rubbing alcohol. It was okay. I was hypnotized. No blood. Didn't feel any pain. (That was the boring part...he would flip a coin to see if I got to have a bite of the Big Mac, or got the needle in the arm. I WANTED that Big Mac. We didn't eat out as much as we do now...Is it too corny to say the audience was on PINS AND NEEDLES for the bit???)
When I brought dates home to meet the family I'd hug mom and say; 'And this is mom. Wouldn't let me stick my foot into the shoe x ray machine all afternoon or let Uncle Len stick foot long needles into my arm that were NOT sterilized."
Mom would just smile very thinly and only half listened. She was used to my 'humor' by then and had given up. She hoped it wouldn't all scare away the good prospects.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 07:14:19 AM by Morgus »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2023, 05:52:05 PM »


Robb, I saw mine in south western Ontario in the middle to late 60's. I think they were taken out because they WORE OUT. You know, like those tubes in the old black and white TV. Mom didn't like us to have too much to do with them. She was a nurse and shoo'd us away. But I have to thank her for that. Probably saved future generations from all sorts of damage. But she was like that. Before my uncle could stick his long needles into my arm during his hypnosis act, he had to sterilize them in rubbing alcohol. It was okay. I was hypnotized. No blood. Didn't feel any pain. (That was the boring part...he would flip a coin to see if I got to have a bite of the Big Mac, or got the needle in the arm. I WANTED that Big Mac. We didn't eat out as much as we do now...Is it too corny to say the audience was on PINS AND NEEDLES for the bit???)
When I brought dates home to meet the family I'd hug mom and say; 'And this is mom. Wouldn't let me stick my foot into the shoe x ray machine all afternoon or let Uncle Len stick foot long needles into my arm that were NOT sterilized."
Mom would just smile very thinly and only half listened. She was used to my 'humor' by then and had given up. She hoped it wouldn't all scare away the good prospects.

Unsupervised X-Ray machines for kids to zap their feet for entertainment, as late as mid to late 1960s????  That's long after people started to worry about whether or not some rays shooting through the body were safe.  I remember adults warning us to not sit too close to the TV as early as mid 1950s.  We sat on easy chairs, the davenport or the floor in the living room, so far across the room from the TV set, that we kids complained that "we needed a telescope to see the show".  They were worried that we would get cancer, or be sterilised and never be able to have children when we would become adults.  Why would people be overboard scared of TV rays and not of X-Rays????
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2023, 06:45:50 PM »

So much for knowledgeable adult authority, huh? Maybe because it was seen as MEDICAL it was OKAY. You know, like doctors in the Camel ads telling you smoking helped your digestion, so you should smoke maybe five Camels at Thanksgiving. Right there at the table.
By the way everybody. Happy Canadian Thanksgiving Day today. Have some Camel cigarettes and enjoy. (Burp)

Remember the old time TV they had in a Simpsons episode? The Radiation King? Left a shadow on the wall from years of watching. Or my favourite line from SLEEPER by Woody Allen. They offer him a cigarette. He refuses and the doctor says;”No. It’s tobacco. Healthiest thing in the world for your body."
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2023, 11:32:27 PM »


So much for knowledgeable adult authority, huh? Maybe because it was seen as MEDICAL it was OKAY. You know, like doctors in the Camel ads telling you smoking helped your digestion, so you should smoke maybe five Camels at Thanksgiving. Right there at the table.
By the way everybody. Happy Canadian Thanksgiving Day today. Have some Camel cigarettes and enjoy. (Burp)

Remember the old time TV they had in a Simpsons episode? The Radiation King? Left a shadow on the wall from years of watching. Or my favourite line from SLEEPER by Woody Allen. They offer him a cigarette. He refuses and the doctor says;”No. It’s tobacco. Healthiest thing in the world for your body."

Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2023, 09:25:14 PM »


So much for knowledgeable adult authority, huh? Maybe because it was seen as MEDICAL it was OKAY. You know, like doctors in the Camel ads telling you smoking helped your digestion, so you should smoke maybe five Camels at Thanksgiving. Right there at the table.
By the way everybody. Happy Canadian Thanksgiving Day today. Have some Camel cigarettes and enjoy. (Burp)

Remember the old time TV they had in a Simpsons episode? The Radiation King? Left a shadow on the wall from years of watching. Or my favourite line from SLEEPER by Woody Allen. They offer him a cigarette. He refuses and the doctor says;”No. It’s tobacco. Healthiest thing in the world for your body."


Happy Canadian Thanksgiving. Your comment about Camel reminded me that the last page of The Yellow Kid ends with an anti-smoking cartoon. Probably way ahead of its time. If only we had listened to the Yellow Kid!

Cheers

QQ
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2023, 01:15:53 AM »


Robb, I saw mine in south western Ontario in the middle to late 60's. I think they were taken out because they WORE OUT. You know, like those tubes in the old black and white TV. Mom didn't like us to have too much to do with them. She was a nurse and shoo'd us away. But I have to thank her for that. Probably saved future generations from all sorts of damage. But she was like that. Before my uncle could stick his long needles into my arm during his hypnosis act, he had to sterilize them in rubbing alcohol. It was okay. I was hypnotized. No blood. Didn't feel any pain. (That was the boring part...he would flip a coin to see if I got to have a bite of the Big Mac, or got the needle in the arm. I WANTED that Big Mac. We didn't eat out as much as we do now...Is it too corny to say the audience was on PINS AND NEEDLES for the bit???)
When I brought dates home to meet the family I'd hug mom and say; 'And this is mom. Wouldn't let me stick my foot into the shoe x ray machine all afternoon or let Uncle Len stick foot long needles into my arm that were NOT sterilized."
Mom would just smile very thinly and only half listened. She was used to my 'humor' by then and had given up. She hoped it wouldn't all scare away the good prospects.


Morgus, I must thank you for giving me a sense of perspective. Just when I think my life experiences have been a little bizarre, it's good to be reminded that there's someone out there who can beat my best.

Your Uncle used to stick foot long needles into your arm as part of his hypnosis act? Seriously, man I'M NOT WORTHY!! :D
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2023, 06:28:42 AM »

Oh yeah. You can see a variation of it in the trailer for THE HYNOTIC EYE. They bring out this hypnotist who wants to show you 'the power of suggestion'. So he sticks some shorter needles through a woman's arm. No pain. No blood. Then the guy 'suggests' you see THE HYPNOTIC EYE.
(Clever line, huh??)
My uncle would bring me out, identify me as his nephew, and ask if  ever I did anything he told me to. I would be sarcastic and say no. He'd hypnotize me and bring out the needles in the old glass Barbasol container with the chrome top like they had at a barber shop. Blue disinfectant.
Remember them??
He'd bring out the Big Mac and start flipping the coin. Heads I could eat a bite of the burger. Tails I got a needle in the arm.
THAT was the only thing that was fake. He didn't CARE what the coin showed. He worked the crowd to build up the tension and he played them like a Les Paul. But the hypnosis and the needles and the Barbasol and the Big Mac were all real.
Fun times.
I finally got certified five years ago and did my wife's knees as my first customer (She has had them both replaced.) She was running up and down the stairs like Scarlett in GONE WITH THE WIND and kissing me and telling me how grateful she was.
I was the good husband that night...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2023, 06:31:39 AM by Morgus »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2023, 06:32:38 PM »


Oh yeah. You can see a variation of it in the trailer for THE HYNOTIC EYE. They bring out this hypnotist who wants to show you 'the power of suggestion'. So he sticks some shorter needles through a woman's arm. No pain. No blood. Then the guy 'suggests' you see THE HYPNOTIC EYE.
(Clever line, huh??)
My uncle would bring me out, identify me as his nephew, and ask if  ever I did anything he told me to. I would be sarcastic and say no. He'd hypnotize me and bring out the needles in the old glass Barbasol container with the chrome top like they had at a barber shop. Blue disinfectant.
Remember them??
He'd bring out the Big Mac and start flipping the coin. Heads I could eat a bite of the burger. Tails I got a needle in the arm.
THAT was the only thing that was fake. He didn't CARE what the coin showed. He worked the crowd to build up the tension and he played them like a Les Paul. But the hypnosis and the needles and the Barbasol and the Big Mac were all real.
Fun times.
I finally got certified five years ago and did my wife's knees as my first customer (She has had them both replaced.) She was running up and down the stairs like Scarlett in GONE WITH THE WIND and kissing me and telling me how grateful she was.
I was the good husband that night...


You finally got certified as an acupuncturist, - or hypnotist???   ;D.   Sounds like you enjoyed being in "Show Business".  Did you sign autographs. 

"The Hypnotic Eye"!!!  One of the most memorable films I've ever seen (among several thousand).  Jacques Bergerac is also an actor one can't forget (even if he or she wants very badly to do so).  Another actor from the John Agar School!   ;D
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2023, 11:28:59 PM »

Max and Maurice
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=85727
An English translation of Max und Moritz which was influential to later comics.
Going to copy the post I originally wrote under 'Comments'
Quote
Excellent, Lyons. A copy oif this is a necessity foir CB+. 'For those who came in late':- Max and Moritz: How Germany's naughtiest boys rose to fame. https:www.qwant.com/?q=Max+and+Maurice+&t=web [ Regardless of how one interprets the story, the picture book is considered a pioneer of modern comics, which developed in the US at the end of the 19th century. Comic strips became popular in US newspapers. In December 1897, the Sunday edition of the "New York Journal" published for the first time "The Katzenjammer Kids" by the German cartoonist Rudolph Dirk. The media mogul William Randolf Hearst had commissioned him with the series. He wanted to increase the circulation of his newspaper and he reportedly said he needed "something like Max and Moritz" for his paper. Dirk applied the instructions literally and borrowed on Wilhem Busch's characters to create the cheeky twins Hans and Fritz. In some cases, the similarities go one step further: "There used to be a very high proportion of German-speaking press in North America at the time. And in those papers, the two characters are explicitly called Max and Moritz," says cartoon expert Martin Jurgeit. That would be called pure plagiarism nowadays.]  

Doesn't negate the importance of these works to the history of the genre tho.

I was introduced to both Max and Moritz at a very early age. I think now that my grandfather was an early comic strip aficionado. My mother's side of the family was Deutsch, having immigrated here in the 1850's to escape what Bismark was doing to Germany. My grandfather had books of both Max  and Moritz and  Struelpeter. and some newspaper or other was still running the The Katzenjammer Kids.
None of this appealed to me, I was horrified by the cruelty as a child. Never found it funny at all. 
Doesn't negate the importance of these works to the history of the genre tho.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2023, 12:00:46 AM »

The Yellow Kid 1896
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=26549
There is No questiion about Outcault's talent, but I have never enjoyed 'the yellow kid'
firstly, the original publicatiion of the strip was in Broadsheet newspapers.
Quote
  Broadsheet 749 mm × 597 mm (29.5 in × 23.5 in) (1.255 aspect ratio) 
 
To put it simply, huge. But most reproductions are on A4 or even smaller, which makes it quite difficult to read. Also, many reproductions are from the newspaper copy, which is not always in good condition.
Just imagine, finding the newspaper delivered on your  doorstep, taking it inside, spreading it out on the floor and having an Outcault double-page spread to look at! 
Also, most of the subject matters context is localized not only in time, but in place, so it's not easy to understand the context.

'Golf in Hogan's alley' for example, is wonderful, full page and no words.
This kind of thing was quite common in the period, and there examples here on CB+ in the 'odds and ends' sections, many courtesy of Lyons.
Must have been wonderful for Outcault to be given such freedom to stretch out and not be jammed into a narrow strip.
A genre of cartooning which we don't have a section for here, is Political or social comment cartoons, usually found on the editorial page. Yellow Kid' is very much in this genre rather than the entertainment strip category.   
Here is my social comment. In this era of children crowded into tenements, with not much money, many with out radio or telephones, never mind television, children socialized, formed groups and were highly creative in finding things to do. We've come a long way, and haven't necessarily ended up in a better place, have we?         
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2023, 12:26:08 AM »


Daffydils
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73904
Well, again, context is important.
This is obviously an item, one page of which would be in a Newspaper every day, or maybe every week. Printing 50 of them and expecting someone to read them that way is obviously overkill and not the way they were meant to be read.
Also, they read like a Vaudeville routine. The early equivalent of stand-up.
 
Quote
 
There was a beautiful young woman knocking on my hotel room door all night! I finally had to let her out.

* I just got back from a pleasure trip. I took my mother-in-law to the airport.

* I've been in love with the same woman for 49 years. If my wife ever finds out, she'll kill me!

* We always hold hands. If I let go, she shops.

* My wife and I went back to the hotel where we spent our wedding night; only this time, I stayed in the bathroom and cried.

* My wife and I went to a hotel where we got a waterbed. My wife called it the Dead Sea.

* She was at the beauty shop for two hours. That was only for the estimate. She got a mud pack and looked great for two days. Then the mud fell off.

* The doctor gave a man six months to live. The man couldn't pay his bill, so the doctor gave him another six months.

* Doctor: 'You'll live to be 60!' Patient: 'I AM 60!' Doctor: 'See! What did I tell you?'

* A doctor holds a stethoscope up to a man's chest. The man asks, 'Doc, how do I stand?' The doctor says, 'That's what puzzles me!'

* Patient: 'I have a ringing in my ears.' Doctor: 'Don't answer!'

* A drunk is in front of a judge. The judge says, 'You've been brought here for drinking.' The drunk says, 'Okay, let's get started.'


Yeah, terrible, for more than one reason.

Tad Dorgan's is pretty clever with his, tho.
Also at this time, creatives, like artist's and writers went to 'watering holes' in groups to entertain each other. TAD would have been hard to top.   
Also, I can imagine someone reading the morning paper and then trying out the joke at work around the coffee urn.

Thanks SuperScrounge , for highlighting these.
Something different from me on Monday!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2023, 06:41:54 AM »

That would be called pure plagiarism nowadays.

It was probably called that back then too. Not that I think it mattered. The Copyright Office back then did not recognize copyrights of foreign authors back then. Look up the problems Gilbert & Sullivan had trying to stop all those pirated productions of their operettas in the US. And they were way more famous than some German author. In some respects it was like the early days of the internet with all the copyright violations going on (although, at least US authors at the turn of the 20th century could get protection in the US.)
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2023, 04:08:59 PM »

Super’, and Panther, I have to wonder how long those Yellow Kid comics took to create. The length in time must  have made the supply pipeline pretty fragile. I’d still like to know who was buying the M&M stuff...sadistic grandparents??  The copyright open season was one of the things that kept Edgar Allan Poe broke. He could never get loot for stuff like THE RAVEN and it was HUGE.

Robb K; I’m certified as a hypnotist. I’m retiring after 35 years working in psych nursing and will do that as a private practise. Like the guys who did their time in the Air Force and then went to work for Pan Am as pilots. Autographs? No, I was seen as a civilian who was there to eat the free Big Mac and get to be a human pin cushion. It was also back in the ‘wild west days’, where you could buy a book in the back of a Spiderman comic, call yourself a hypnotist after you read it, and set up shop.
My uncle got involved when the REAL hypnotist got hurt and he went on instead and did his act. Uncle made rooms for Holiday and Ramada Inn and had seen the other guy's act a lot. That was all it took then. Boom. He was a hypnotist. Now you get certified and take courses and go to conventions to upgrade.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2023, 06:33:01 PM »


Super’, and Panther, I have to wonder how long those Yellow Kid comics took to create. The length in time must  have made the supply pipeline pretty fragile. I’d still like to know who was buying the M&M stuff...sadistic grandparents??  The copyright open season was one of the things that kept Edgar Allan Poe broke. He could never get loot for stuff like THE RAVEN and it was HUGE.

Robb K; I’m certified as a hypnotist. I’m retiring after 35 years working in psych nursing and will do that as a private practise. Like the guys who did their time in the Air Force and then went to work for Pan Am as pilots. Autographs? No, I was seen as a civilian who was there to eat the free Big Mac and get to be a human pin cushion. It was also back in the ‘wild west days’, where you could buy a book in the back of a Spiderman comic, call yourself a hypnotist after you read it, and set up shop.
My uncle got involved when the REAL hypnotist got hurt and he went on instead and did his act. Uncle made rooms for Holiday and Ramada Inn and had seen the other guy's act a lot. That was all it took then. Boom. He was a hypnotist. Now you get certified and take courses and go to conventions to upgrade.

Thanks Morgus, for the information about hypnotism.  Do I understand correctly that you hypnotised psychologically disturbed patients as a part of their medical treatment?  Was a psychologist or psychiatrist always there to analyse what the patient revealed, and how he/she behaved?  Or did the doctors only watch a video film of your sessions? 
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2023, 09:11:31 PM »

No, I worked as a nurse and did nurse things. The hypnosis I only did at work a few times after I was certified. A social worker was there to watch, and I did some sessions with clients in their homes at the mutual request of them and the doctor’s. The hospital staff, however, is one of my biggest client sources. De-stress. Help improve their memory to pass tests. Lose weight. Quit smoking, you get the idea.
ONE time I did it with a client at the hospital when he was under observation. He had a reputation of attacking people without warning. He also went on (and on) about his sports career. So,  I asked him to do some simple steps to ‘relax’. In a few minutes he was out like a light. Perfect, (I thought).
Then, suddenly he wakes up and is across the room and wants to smack me out. i softly and slowly said to him; “Stop. You are a good man. I am on your side. It will be all right.”
He repeated this. But rooted to the floor.
“Now. Let’s you and i go up to the seclusion room. You will go in. I will give you a milk or something.”
He repeated this as well, still rooted to the floor.
We walked up to the room. It was one of those rare rare times when NO ONE was around. So if he had connected and I hit my alarm, it would have been a few minutes until help came. Not cool.
I got him in the room, found a cold milk, and he went right back to sleep. Was out for the afternoon.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2023, 04:48:32 AM »

I'm late to dinner again. And I don't mean a dinner of ground up (human) brats. If the miller had turned the chickens into sausages he would have ended up with brat bratwurst containing the world's worst brats. But I digress.

Max and Maurice did not appeal to me. I leave it to psychologists and/or historians to figure out why adults of an earlier day were obsessed with misbehaving children. If you follow Alan Holz's excellent Stripper's Guide website you've seen that early American newspaper strips overflowed with monstrous moppets, male and female, rich and poor. Unlike Max and Moritz (and the Katzies) many of these kids got away with it. Many even framed an innocent relative who got the whipping. None, as far as I know, were turned into a chicken dinner.

Which is another thing I don't understand: the grand tradition of grisly children's stories with gleeful accounts of kids meeting ghastly fates. Such things never appealed to me. As a kid stories like that would give me nightmares for days. I never understood other kids who laughed at them. The bottom line being, I did not care for Max and Maurice, historical and literary merits notwithstanding.

I also don't care much for Busch's artwork. His style is a bit archaic for my tastes. Nice lettering on the title page, though. I presume this wasn't Busch's doing, being in English. What is this thing Busch had for delineating bird anuses?

The Yellow Kid is amazing. The scans are good enough that I could zoom in 400% on CDisplay and read almost everything. I've seen a few of these early Sunday pages in person. As the Panther pointed out, they are huge. The quality of the coloring must be seen to be fully appreciated. As late as the 1940s Sunday strips used wider color palettes and more elaborate fades and transitions than the papers we grew up with. It's a shame that even the most loving modern reproductions of Little Nemo and his compatriots are tiny compared to the original pages.

Outcault's cartooning is terrific. These are real kids. He makes every figure an individual with their own height, weight, and build. Everyone has a different expression and a unique pose. The longer you look the more there is to see. Brilliant work.

I laughed at many of the jokes and had heard of many of the historical events. However I know that most of the contemporary references went right over my head.

I agree with everyone else that Daffydills was a tough read. I gave up halfway through. Like the Panther said, these were one-a-day panels and readers had 24 hours to forget the last one before they read the next. Taking in a bunch of them one after the other I felt like a bad standup comedian was desperately pounding me over the head with catchphrases and punchlines trying to raise a laugh.

All the same I didn't care much for the jokes. As I've said I'm a big fan of word play and groaning puns. The problem with the Daffydill paragraphs is that the opening "story" has no connection to the punchline. I'd rather he'd followed the "shaggy dog" formula in which the story builds to a final payoff.

I wonder about his catchphrases. We all know where "Quick Watson, the needle" came from. Some of them, like "Officer, he's in again" and "Let him up, he's all cut" sound like punchlines of jokes that everyone supposedly knows. Did they come from well-known vaudeville sketches? The same goes for "Take 'em off, we know you." Parsing century-old humor is an anthropological exercise.

By the way, when I made that comment about Dorgan's cartooning some years back I was referring only to the daily stick-figure drawings. Dorgan's real talent is clear in the opening and closing cartoons done in his native style. However the daily newspaper reader didn't get to see that stuff.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2023, 07:17:51 AM »

Quote
   Some of them, like "Officer, he's in again" and "Let him up, he's all cut" sound like punchlines of jokes that everyone supposedly knows. Did they come from well-known vaudeville sketches? The same goes for "Take 'em off, we know you." Parsing century-old humor is an anthropological exercise.

Most modern-day examples are from Films or TV series.
'Sorry about that chief!' "Yada, Yada, Yada", "D'oh!""Live Long And Prosper",“Marcia, Marcia, Marcia”, and the like.
Which makes me wonder if Movies and Radio of the day were the source of Dorgan's catchphrases.     
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2023, 10:24:09 PM »

Well, I'm glad people found these choices interesting.  :)

I guess it's time to offer my thoughts.

Max and Maurice

I read this a while back and I was amazed that some people consider this to be the first comic book. No! It's an illustrated story. An influential illustrated story, but still an illustrated story.

The meanness and the grimness of the story surprised me as we rarely get these kinds of stories these days. Bad kids are more likely to be more like the American Dennis the Menace rather than outright malevolent and the death of a child is treated as a tragedy rather than a just punishment. I wonder if it had anything to do with the higher death rates of children back then?


The Yellow Kid 1896

I picked this because it has what experts consider to be the first Comic Strip, not the whole series, just one example. I wish I could have found the exact definition of a comic strip, but it went something like "a series of sequential pictures with dialogue in word balloons and the words & pictures must work together for the joke to work", which is interesting since a large number of what people consider to be comic strips aren't. Pantomime strips like The Little King or Henry not officially comic strips because they don't have words. Prince Valiant? Nope, it doesn't have word balloons.  American Dennis the Menace or The Far Side? Nope, they're one panel comics. Cathy? Nope, the humor is dependent on the words, not the pictures.

Still, despite that one example it is an interesting comic. I have a hardcover collection of the series (and even at the larger size I needed a magnifying glass to read all the jokes) and I found it interesting. Okay the Irish dialect humor got annoying after a while, but an interesting glimpse of the past.


Daffydils

Looking at the comments on this I noticed I wrote "This is a curious collection. Mostly text jokes, probably old at the time, with very limited comic content. An interesting look at what passed for a "comic strip" back in the early days of the format. I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone, but if you're interested in early "comic strips" it's worth a look."

Obviously I was wrong about recommending it to just anyone.  ::)

It's biggest flaw is the repetition, which is why I didn't think anyone would make it all the way through.

Someone, maybe more than one, commented about not being able to see the artist's ability because of the stick figures, and while you can't see how talented an artist is just from stick figures, I would point out just how easy it is to screw up a stick figure. Their apparent simplicity leaves no room to hide art mistakes. A furry or human figure might not have the body language right & the viewer will accept it, but you screw up the body language on a stick figure and you blow the joke. While not all of TAD's stick figures are perfect, the important ones sell the body language.


I'm glad that everyone found these choices interesting, and some were even entertained. Tomorrow we will probably be getting back to more regular comic book fare.  :)
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2023, 10:29:25 PM »

The same goes for "Take 'em off, we know you."

I think this refers to someone wearing a pair of glasses, or novelty glasses, to disguise themselves. I seem to remember seeing it in some old movie.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2023, 12:02:03 AM »


Quote
Someone, maybe more than one, commented about not being able to see the artist's ability because of the stick figures, and while you can't see how talented an artist is just from stick figures, I would point out just how easy it is to screw up a stick figure. Their apparent simplicity leaves no room to hide art mistakes. 

this is a common misconception about art, what looks simple is in fact not so.
For example. 'Peanuts' looks deceptively simple, but Schulz manages to depict recognizable characters and behavior patterns within that visual framework.   
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #307 - Early Comics and Curiosities
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2023, 01:10:57 AM »

Brat bratwurst...great line Crash.
Do we KNOW how many of the originals of the Yellow Kid survived? Are they incredibly fragile now, and never brought out into direct light, that kind of thing?
Also, am I right that there was an exhibit of some a few years back?
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