[Robb_K]

Well, it seems there's lots of discussion on memories of Captain Marvel and the British Marvelman. I'm a 60s kid, and I don't ever remember seeing Captain Marvel or Marvelman comics in Australia. In fact, my introduction to Captain Marvel was at the movies. There's a film buff in my town who's the grandson of pioneering Aussie filmmaker Charles Chauvel (or so I've heard). Anyway the grandson (Rick) used to run Rick's Flicks, which showed classic movies once a month and there would also be a short. A couple of times, Captain Marvel was the short, but I never saw the whole series. I would have gone to those films in the 1990s or early 2000s. I hadn't seen the original comics until I joined this site. And don't get me started on the (1) stoush between Marvel and DC that means DC now has to have Shazam instead of Captain Marvel!

A couple of years ago, I read a book on comic book history, and (2) was interested to learn that they had modelled Captain Marvel's face on Fred McMurray because they wanted him to be more of an everyman than Superman. I wonder if they asked Fred's permission? Also, the following article argues that Mary Marvel was based on Judy Garland and Spy Smasher was based on Errol Flynn. I can definitely see Fred. Not so sure of the others.

https://screenrant.com/shazam-appearance-looks-based-on-1940s-actor-fred-macmurray/
Cheers
QQ

(1) That's a new word for me (at least in knowing the official definition and origin of the term).  I've always guessed from context and its sound, that it meant something along the lines of "ongoing battle against".  I looked it up in my oxford dictionary, and found it was a term that The Aussies and Kiwis picked up while fighting in The Boer War.  I've got some family that were Afrikaaners, but never heard them use that term.  Also, I can't recall a Dutch, Flemish, Afrikaans or analogous dialect term close enough to have come from the same root.  I guess the term is also used a bit in The UK; but I never heard it used in Canada, or by any family members.

(2) I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of panels of Captain Marvel, and hundreds of still photos and scenes of Fred MacMurray in films and TV, and never once noticed ANY resemblance between the two, other than they both had dark-coloured hair.  Captain Marvel has the jutting squared-off jaw of many comic book strong-man and strong hero types, with a fairly squared head.  To my recollection, Fred MacMurray had a long face (like a bloodhound), that mimics to long and relatively narrow shape.  So, to me, they don't resemble each other in the slightest. 

[Robb_K]

The Kilroys 5

Natch- Happy New Year
Natch won 2 tickets to the New Year's championship football game, and plans to take his girlfriend.  Her father, who doesn't like Natch, also wants to go to that game, but is too late to buy tickets.  Due to dancing with a scheming new girl that Natch's rival brought to his girlfriend's party, his girlfriend dumped him, and decided to go to the football game with his rival.  And to try to get her back, he has to take her father to the game, hoping he'll put in a good word with his daughter, on his behalf.  A really dull, obvious story, with nothing clever. or unexpected.  really weak.  I'd have been fired if I ever turned in 2 stories like that in the same year. I've read most of The Kilroys' stories in most of their issues, and liked very, very few, even slightly.  I find it hard to believe that that series lasted over 50 issues.  It doesn't hold a candle to the Golden Age "Archie", or "Henry Aldrich", or "Andy Hardy" stories.  just copying the situation, but not having naturally funny writers doesn't work - even with good artwork (although Dan Gordon's artwork on this series is even too "cartoony" for my taste.  He's great with funny animals, but his humans are too "zany-looking" for non-Zany humour.  Now, IF he had been drawing a series like Milt Gross' "Count Screwloose" (filler in this book), or "That's My Pa!", his style would work fine (maybe with a bit of zany exaggeration added). 

The in-house advert exclaiming to The World that the prospective reader will wet his or her pants from rolling-on-the-floor laughter from the extremely funny stories in this book they are about to read, is dreadfully ironic, and an evil lie.  As an editor, I'd never have accepted the series.  The irony here reminds me of the inane laugh tracks added to American sitcoms during the 1950s and 1960s, that were so corny that they were insulting.  Reading this was insulting, and a waste of time, except for the experience learning about bad writing and seeing how Dan Gordon's art style changed slowly during those 6 years.

It appears that the hack writer read a book on how to write situation comedy, which pointed out that an unexpected twist ending is necessary to an ironic situation, caused either by dumb (bad luck) and/or helped along by a coincidence, causing a misinterpretation of what is happening and the totally wrong decision is made that leads to the good or bad (but funny) ending for the protagonist and/or his/her adversary. All that IS a good story set-up and framework.  BUT, the story's characters need to show emotion strongly, so that it appears believable, and the reader can empathise with the protagonist, and "live in the story" (e.g. have a "stake" in what is happening in the story.  Otherwise, what's happening in the story is meaningless to the reader, like watching paint on the wall drying).  Also, comic art MUST be exaggerated to have effect.  The only character that showed much emotion was Judy's father, the cop.  His anger was clear.  Although I'd have varied its form and intensity more, leading to a creschendo, at which point we think that judy's father forbids her to see Natch again, and we see Natch in the depth of despair.  The cop DID say that in words, and even that he'd grind Natch's skull to dust IF he'd ever dare to set foot in his house again.  But, based on the art in his expression, as well as Natch's reaction, I just didn't believe he meant that.  In comic book stories, the artwork is so VERY crucial, because we use so few words.  It is really a much higher quality of artistic expression than the lay public, as a whole, appreciate.

I'm not sure if I will discuss any of the other "stories' in this book, as (other than Milt Gross') the rest suffer from similar problems.  I did notice that Natch's father looks almost like a carbon copy of Jimmy Hatlo's "Little Iodine's" father (with a longer nose).

[Morgus]

Hey, Crash, you got me thinking about how I tripped across CM. It wasn’t the comics either. Mom was reading SOMETMES A GREAT NOTION by Ken Kesey and he used comic characters as illustrations to the characters emotions. Like I read “Doc” Smith’s Lensman series because of Green Lantern and found out about Green Latern from the Donovan song.
‘Panther; yeah. Binder and Beck on Superman. I am convinced the only reason it didn’t happen was because Beck hacked them off. Rave on, C.C. A Binder and Beck JLA would have been Anarchy In The USA but worth every panel.
Robb: now I can’t UNSEE Little Iodines’ dad (Henry Tremblechin??? Was that his name??)

[Robb_K]

Hey, Crash, you got me thinking about how I tripped across CM. It wasn’t the comics either. Mom was reading SOMETMES A GREAT NOTION by Ken Kesey and he used comic characters as illustrations to the characters emotions. Like I read “Doc” Smith’s Lensman series because of Green Lantern and found out about Green Latern from the Donovan song.
‘Panther; yeah. Binder and Beck on Superman. I am convinced the only reason it didn’t happen was because Beck hacked them off. Rave on, C.C. A Binder and Beck JLA would have been Anarchy In The USA but worth every panel.
Robb: now I can’t UNSEE Little Iodines’ dad (Henry Tremblechin??? Was that his name??)

Yes, it was.  Good memory.

[paw broon]

"Stoush"  Great.  I'd say "Stooshie".  Actually I use the word quite a lot.

[Robb_K]

"Stoush"  Great.  I'd say "Stooshie".  Actually I use the word quite a lot.

It makes sense that the term "stoush" got back to Scotland, as I recall that a Scottish regiment fought in The Boer War.  Or maybe it was an older, commonly-used Old Dutch word that was carried over to Scotland (and the Scots Taal) during the Medieval Flemish wool trade-related heavy immigration, that later eventually fell out of use in Standard Dutch and Old English(if it ever was in).  It likely would have been spelt thusly: "stoesj" or "stoesch".

[paw broon]

Also spelt, "Stushie".  But my version could well be a local, Lanarkshire, variant. As you'll see in this link there are umpteen versions:-
https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/stashie

[Robb_K]

Also spelt, "Stushie".  But my version could well be a local, Lanarkshire, variant. As you'll see in this link there are umpteen versions:-
https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/stashie

Those 1850-1870s references prove a pre-Boer War origin.  The British took over The Cape Colony in 1800.  So there could well be borrowings from Afrikaans from 1850-1896.  Or, perhaps there was an old West Germanic root mutual to Aengelsk, Saxon, Frisian and Salian Frankish that was native to both Scots and Old Dutch from their beginnings, but has become obsolete in Dutch. 

Perhaps the Dutch word, "stoer", meaning "tough", or "robust", was once a cognate of "stoesch", or "stoesj", which would have sounded much like the Scots word, without the diminutive -y or -ie suffix?  We'll probably never know.

[Quirky Quokka]

Robb said:

Naturally, the German Spy can't get along with the kindly and "weak" locals, but his 2 Italian underlings mirror the US cliché of The Italian Military, as having no stomach for war, and combat, and so, take well to the peaceful, friendly atmosphere.  It was no coincidence that US military was, by the date of this issue, already planning to invade Sicily, and soon after, mainland Italy.  So US policy was to have as much cooperation with The Italians as possible.  So, US propaganda and public mage of The Italians was much less of a dangerous "evil" enemy than that of The Germans, who led The Axis European War effort in all ways.  And that also is reflected in the story's ending in which The German attempts to take over the Utopic City, and murder The old wise leader, while the 2 Italians refuse to help him in that effort.  And, they choose to remain living there, in harmony with the local "peaceniks".

Thanks for that extra historical info, Robb. I hadn't fully understood the significance, but that makes sense.

SuperScrounge said the following about whether Captain Marvel's appearance is based on Fred McMurray:

Nope. Sometime in '80s or 90s Entertainment Tonight asked either Fred or his estate (he was still alive at the time, but I'm not sure if he was still giving interviews) and the response was that they had not heard that story before.

There are a number of superheroes (and other comic characters) who got their likeness from actors, some have been confirmed, some it just seems logical. Gil Kane admitted to using Paul Newman as the basis for Hal (Green Lantern) Jordan, of course the artist lived next door to the actor at the time. Ray (The Atom) Palmer was also based on an actor, but I forget the name and I can't find the comic it was mentioned in. Doctor Strange is believed to have been based on Vincent Price. Sabrina the teenage witch was based on Kim Novak, who starred in Bell, Book and Candle which inspired the first Sabrina story.

That's interesting that Fred or someone from his estate said they hadn't heard of that before, because I thought it was well-known before then. And thanks for those other names. Will have to look out for those resemblances.

But Robb said:

I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of panels of Captain Marvel, and hundreds of still photos and scenes of Fred MacMurray in films and TV, and never once noticed ANY resemblance between the two, other than they both had dark-coloured hair.  Captain Marvel has the jutting squared-off jaw of many comic book strong-man and strong hero types, with a fairly squared head.  To my recollection, Fred MacMurray had a long face (like a bloodhound), that mimics to long and relatively narrow shape.  So, to me, they don't resemble each other in the slightest.

Wow, that's an amazing number of panels on Captain Marvel. I can still see some resemblance if you look at photos of Fred when he was younger, but there are differences. I can still believe it might have been 'inspired' by Fred, though not an exact likeness.

Regarding the Kilroys, Robb said:

I find it hard to believe that that series lasted over 50 issues.  It doesn't hold a candle to the Golden Age "Archie", or "Henry Aldrich", or "Andy Hardy" stories.  ... The in-house advert exclaiming to The World that the prospective reader will wet his or her pants from rolling-on-the-floor laughter from the extremely funny stories in this book they are about to read, is dreadfully ironic, and an evil lie.  As an editor, I'd never have accepted the series. 

I agree it's not as good as Archie and Andy Hardy (I'm not as familiar with Henry Aldrich) and I too squirmed at the inhouse press telling how fantastic the comic was going to be. I'm not sure if you ended up reading any of the other stories, but I did find the New Year's story was one of the weaker ones. The Kilroys lasted 8 years and Archie is now into his 81st year and still going strong, so I guess that tells us something.

Morgus said:

Like I read “Doc” Smith’s Lensman series because of Green Lantern and found out about Green Lantern from the Donovan song.

Which Donovan song was that, Morgus? I saw him in concert back in the 80s and had one of his greatest hits albums. It also reminds me how I found out about a lot of old sci-fi movies from the lyrics of 'Science Fiction' at the start of 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' and now have some of those in my collection.

And Robb and Paw Broon were talking about 'stoush'. It's not a word I would use much, but I didn't realise it wasn't well-known around the world. I always learn things in this group.

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Whiz Comics #39, January 1943

As Panther noted, there are some big names on the editorial board with Eleanor Roosevelt and Rear Admiral Byrd. I seem to recall having a discussion about these boards before. Did they ever actually read these comics?

Captain Marvel Finds Utopia

The story was probably typical of superhero comics at that time. They have to bop the Nazis or the Japanese, but there’s also a bit of humour in the story and style. As Morgus noted, one of the bad guys looked like Harpo Marx, and some of the Utopians reminded me of Asterix comics. But once you notice that Captain Marvel looks like Fred McMurray, there’s no turning back -- at least for me there wasn't. Cap sure knows how to beat those Nazis, and there is some good action in the art. The two Italian sidekicks even reform. A nice wholesome story for the time.

Captain Marvel Ad

Why is a chef in stereotyped blackface telling us in rhyme about Cap Marvel’s letter?

Golden Arrow

On p. 24, why did Golden Arrow immediately give the townsfolk a clue about where he’d hidden Jim? No surprise then that one of the baddies is quick to find Jim.
Can we be assured that no horses were harmed in the making of this comic book? The horse probably would have broken his leg on that trip wire on p. 27.
A few holes in the story, but some good art, especially the horses and action shots.

Colonel Porterhouse Rides Again?

Interesting device to have Colonel Porterhouse and the kids reading a Golden Arrow story right after we’ve read a Golden Arrow story.
How come the boy Porterhouse and the whippersnapper Porterhouse still look like the old Porterhouse? At least there’s a resemblance!
I wondered if the mention of the roller towel was ‘product placement’. A quick google search found that they were invented in the 1930s, but probably weren’t in wider use until after the war. And is this story set back in the 1800s anyway? Not sure what year it’s supposed to be.
Mr Mealy is never going to win Father of the Year if he’s so quick to give up his daughter rather than his cattle. Finishes on a bit of a weak joke, but was probably funnier at the time.

The Mad Artist

Really a one-page plug for War Bonds. Though is he paying the money into war bonds or getting his dividends back?

Spy Smasher and the New Year’s Eve Plot

This is my first Spy Smasher story, so I’m not sure how many continuing characters there are. They really love that word ‘smasher’, with Spy Smasher, America Smasher and Axis Smasher.

The first narration box raises an interesting question. This comic book came out in January 1943, so heralding in the New Year would have caused mixed feelings. Another year that begins with the world at war, but will this be the year that brings an end to the conflict?

So the plans are taped to the Admiral’s chest? I hope he waxed first. And let’s hope they don’t do a strip search. But it’s okay because the code is in his office. Umm … isn’t that one of the first places the bad guys would search? I also wondered why they needed the code. Weren’t there diagrams? But I guess the devil is in the detail.

The award for the best line goes to ‘What a pickle!’ Yes, Spy Smasher, you certainly were in a pickle with that bomb strapped to you. Lucky that really tall drunk heard the bomb from the street (as Morgus noted) and was able to save the day. And it was all wrapped up in time to bring in a jolly good New Year.

Lance O’Leary and the New Year Story

I wasn’t familiar with Lance O’Leary and the story didn’t give a lot of clues as to his occupation or purpose. But Mr Google tells me he was a seafarer and adventurer out for profit. Mike was his young sidekick (though Mike looks like a middle-aged man in most of the art, and certainly no younger than Lance). Too bad Hogan the monkey doesn’t make an appearance.

https://www.toonopedia.com/lanceo.htm

I liked the original setting, being in South China during Chinese New Year. Though the lanterns and the Chinese dragon were the only things that would tell you that. There were a few holes in the story. Even though it turns out to be a fake squad of police, would Lance and Mike happily walk in amongst them the whole way, and wouldn’t real police have discouraged that? So that should have been their first clue. Also, it would have been pretty hard to empty a whole box of opium into the guard’s pocket just with bumping into him. But I did like it overall and I’d read another of his stories.

Ibis the Invincible – The Slave of the Lamp

How did I reach my sixties without ever hearing about the ibistick? I couldn’t get over the fact that it looked like one of those wands you dip into soapy water and use to blow bubbles.
A nice plug for saving up your scrap metal for the war effort. But if you try to pilfer any, there will be consequences, you unpatriotic swine! I’m not sure why they made it Aladdin’s lamp, when it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Aladdin. Is that the only kind of lamp that produces a genie? Not according to ‘I Dream of Jeannie’, but I digress.
Not the greatest story and extremely far-fetched even for a superhero. They really grew to be the size of planets?

Overall

Overall, this would have been a fun comic that I would have been happy to read when I was a kid. A mix of heroes and ordinary folk beating the bad guys, plus some humour and pretty good art on the whole.

[crashryan]

Which Donovan song was that?

"Sunshine Superman." It was a big hit in the USA; don't know about the rest of the world.

Superman or Green Lantern ain't got a-nothin' on me
I can make like a turtle and dive for your pearls in the sea. Yep!

My best buddy at the time was a fellow comic book fan. We did know who Green Lantern was and got a huge kick out of his appearing in a popular song. I confess we also used it as an excuse to play snob with the poor uneducated masses.

[The Australian Panther]

!/ According to this dictionary, the word STOUSH is Australian in origin, which would mean it probably came into usage from Scottish origin. I've always been familiar with it. The Boer War? There were Australian troops at the Boer War, so who knows? 

stoush transitive verb, ˈstau̇sh - -ed/-ing/-es
1
Australia : to hit hard : strike, thrash
2
Australia : defeat
stoush - plural -es
Australia : fight, brawl, violence 
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stoush 

2/

Naturally, the German Spy can't get along with the kindly and "weak" locals, but his 2 Italian underlings mirror the US cliché of The Italian Military, as having no stomach for war,

This is not just a cliche [cliches usually have some factual origin] and it's not just the US who categorized WW2 Italian Troops that way. But Italians in WW2 weren't cowards. Their attitude was similar to US troops in Vietnam, 'They were there because the Government sent them there,but they had no personal investment in the war or Mussolini's government. I've read books on the Australian troops defense of Tobruk in North Africa and they make similar observations.
3/
Robb, on Captain Marvel, Fred MacMurray, we are, old mate, in fundamental disagreement.

I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of panels of Captain Marvel, and hundreds of still photos and scenes of Fred MacMurray in films and TV, and never once noticed ANY resemblance between the two, other than they both had dark-coloured hair.   

 
Try the smile, the eyebrows and the height, the brow, the hair style, the chin.
Have a look here.
Internet Media Discussion Boards
https://imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/82684/macmurray-inspiration-captain-marvel-shazam

Also, in Kurt Busiak's Astro City series MacMurray was used as the template for the character, 'The Gentleman' in obvious homage to Captain Marvel/MacMurray.



 

[Quirky Quokka]

Which Donovan song was that?

"Sunshine Superman." It was a big hit in the USA; don't know about the rest of the world.

Superman or Green Lantern ain't got a-nothin' on me
I can make like a turtle and dive for your pearls in the sea. Yep!

My best buddy at the time was a fellow comic book fan. We did know who Green Lantern was and got a huge kick out of his appearing in a popular song. I confess we also used it as an excuse to play snob with the poor uneducated masses.

Thanks for that, Crash. I have heard the song but not for years, so that song lyric wouldn't have registered with me. I don't think I'd heard of Green Lantern until watching 'Big Bang Theory', when Sheldon would give the catch cry every now and then and they took the Green Lantern lantern to a party - LOL I've since educated myself.

And here's the film clip of the song with lyrics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCQ0LmZkSjQ

And here's Sheldon with the Green Lantern lantern:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xKwPG408Uo

Cheers

QQ

[SuperScrounge]

Captain Marvel Ad

Why is a chef in stereotyped blackface telling us in rhyme about Cap Marvel’s letter?

I believe that's Steamboat, who worked for Billy Batson until the backlash against mushmouf style drawings got him removed from the series.

Mushmouf is a term sometimes used for drawings of people based on the blackface stage makeup. There's probably several different ways of spelling it, but they all refer to the big lips of the mouth.

[The Australian Panther]

Kilroys No. 5 (1948)
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=17956

Well, nobody much has commented on this book! And that means, nobody has commented on the catch-phrase, "Kilroy was here!' found on every cover of the series. 

The Story Behind the Phrase "Kilroy Was Here"
https://www.thoughtco.com/killroy-was-here-4152093

Yet again, Australians were probably there first, re 'Foo was here' in WW!.
We do punch above our weight. 
The article notes,

For a few years during and after World War II, he was ubiquitous: a doodle of a big-nosed man, peering over a wall, accompanied by the inscription "Kilroy was here." At the height of his popularity, Kilroy could be found just about everywhere: 

I'm old enough to have seen that doodle in many places.
Somebody at ACG, for it is they, seems to have thought that having a comic based around that catchphrase was a good idea. Not that it was a bad one. It did last 54 issues, which is pretty good for a golden age comic.
Re the cover,
He broke an electricity pole with his head, and kept skiing?!
Is he related to Clark Kent?
Ice skating i s nice skating
Page one
I like the details. I also have a dog that snores. Makes me laugh. And I had a Valve radio like that which I bought second hand. Great sound too.
page 2 - He calls his Mom, sweetheart?
Page 3 - well-observed, classic sibling behaviour.
The writer seems to take a strong interest in current verbal usage.
'Don't be corny!' 'For corn's sake!' Never heard either of these used in those context before.
After all the blustering from Dad, and the opposition to his negativity from his wife, the ending shows the real strength of their relationship.
That weigh about women
Well-paced and a good and unexpected gag at the end.
Ikey Ike
A Verbal gag. Would have gone well on radio.
Hot Rod Jockey's
I note that on the first panel of every story, there is always a visual gag, not necessarily related to the narrative. But that is a good attention-getter. 
Bob Wickersham is good with the build-up to his punch-line in all his stories.
Bob Wickersham [Bob Wick]
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/w/wickersham_bob.htm
And here's a site I have not come across before, and will be spending some time on.
MOONLIGHTING ANIMATORS IN COMICS: Bob Wickersham
https://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/moonlighting-animators-in-comics-bob-wickersham/
Excerpt;-

In the early 1930s, he joined Walt Disney’s studio, and became a full animator by 1933. He animated on several Mickey Mouse, Silly Symphonies and Donald Duck cartoons throughout the ‘30s. Wickersham worked on a few scenes in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and the “Sorcerer’s Apprentice” sequence in Fantasia, but was uncredited for his animation on both films. He left Disney to work at Max Fleischer’s studio in Miami, which offered a higher salary for preparation of their first feature film Gulliver’s Travels. He worked at Fleischer’s as an animator and story artist, contributing to several theatrical shorts and their second feature, Mr. Bug Goes to Town. 

That explains his pacing. I note also he seems to also do his own lettering.

Cal Howard often wrote the stories for the Kilroys magazine.   

  note, 'Often'. I would hazard a guess that his relationship with writers, was something of a Kirby/ Lee relationship. 
Kollege Kapers.
Don't know who drew this, its a different style, but it's easy on the eyes.
Romance Rides the Airwaves 
I'm a disc jockey mom! Usual visual gag.
Count Screwloose was a strip character by Milt Gross.
Gross Exaggerations: The Meshuga Comic Strips of Milt Gross
https://www.tcj.com/reviews/gross-exaggerations-the-meshuga-comic-strips-of-milt-gross/
So, finally, Happy New Year!
All the narrative elements are there in the art on panel one.
He's getting dressed to go out, there's a picture of Judy on the wall and two football tickets on the dresser and a calendar showing, January One. Subliminal cues.
Pretty obvious conclusion, but plenty of detail and all regular characters used well .

QQ, thank you! You have caused me to find a new wonderful site and introduced me to two creators i was not aware of and whom I will be following up.
The book, Gross Exaggerations looks like something I will have to have.
Thanks again! 

[The Australian Panther]

This post was started on 07/01/24 and that's two weeks ago, so there will be a new one tomorrow. Reading Group was a regular crew of 4, but is now a crew of 3 and an open slot for guests.
I have a special guest lined up for tomorrow and I think you are gonna like what he has in mind.
If you would like to be a guest, or have a suggestion as to what to cover,
Click on this link and we will consider it.
https://comicbookplus.com/forum/?topic=18734.0

Happy reading! 

[Quirky Quokka]

Robb, on Captain Marvel, Fred MacMurray, we are, old mate, in fundamental disagreement.

I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of panels of Captain Marvel, and hundreds of still photos and scenes of Fred MacMurray in films and TV, and never once noticed ANY resemblance between the two, other than they both had dark-coloured hair.   

 
Try the smile, the eyebrows and the height, the brow, the hair style, the chin.
Have a look here.
Internet Media Discussion Boards
https://imdb2.freeforums.net/thread/82684/macmurray-inspiration-captain-marvel-shazam

Also, in Kurt Busiak's Astro City series MacMurray was used as the template for the character, 'The Gentleman' in obvious homage to Captain Marvel/MacMurray.

Thanks for the link, Panther. I can definitely see the resemblance.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Captain Marvel Ad

Why is a chef in stereotyped blackface telling us in rhyme about Cap Marvel’s letter?

I believe that's Steamboat, who worked for Billy Batson until the backlash against mushmouf style drawings got him removed from the series.

Mushmouf is a term sometimes used for drawings of people based on the blackface stage makeup. There's probably several different ways of spelling it, but they all refer to the big lips of the mouth.

Ah, thanks SuperScrounge. I didn't realise he had been a character in the series. That makes sense now. Really stands out as politically incorrect when you see it these days, but that was 1943. When I was a kid, the 'Black and White Minstrel' show was on TV and even then I remember thinking how stupid it was for white people to put on blackface. I didn't understand the sociopolitical situation, but it still seemed wrong. I hadn't heard the term 'mushmouf' before, so thanks for that.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Kilroys No. 5 (1948)
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=17956

Well, nobody much has commented on this book! And that means, nobody has commented on the catch-phrase, "Kilroy was here!' found on every cover of the series. 

The Story Behind the Phrase "Kilroy Was Here"
https://www.thoughtco.com/killroy-was-here-4152093

Yet again, Australians were probably there first, re 'Foo was here' in WW!.
We do punch above our weight. 
The article notes,

For a few years during and after World War II, he was ubiquitous: a doodle of a big-nosed man, peering over a wall, accompanied by the inscription "Kilroy was here." At the height of his popularity, Kilroy could be found just about everywhere: 

I'm old enough to have seen that doodle in many places.
Somebody at ACG, for it is they, seems to have thought that having a comic based around that catchphrase was a good idea. Not that it was a bad one. It did last 54 issues, which is pretty good for a golden age comic.
Re the cover,
He broke an eletricity pole with his head, and kept skiing?!
Is he related to Clark Kent?
Ice skating i s nice skating
Page one
I like the details. I also have a dog that snores. Makes me laugh. And I had a Valve radio like that which I bought second hand. Great sound too.
page 2 - He calls his Mom, sweetheart?
Page 3 - well-observed, classic sibling behaviour.
The writer seems to take a strong interest in current verbal usage.
'Don't be corny!' 'For corn's sake!' Never heard either of these used in those context before.
After all the blustering from Dad, and the opposition to his negativity from his wife, the ending shows the real strength of their relationship.
That weigh about women
Well-paced and a good and unexpected gag at the end.
Ikey Ike
A Verbal gag. Would have gone well on radio.
Hot Rod Jockey's
I note that on the first panel of every story, there is always a visual gag, not necessarily related to the narrative. But that is a good attention-getter. 
Bob Wickersham is good with the build-up to his punch-line in all his stories.
Bob Wickersham [Bob Wick]
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/w/wickersham_bob.htm
And here's a site I have not come across before, and will be spending some time on.
MOONLIGHTING ANIMATORS IN COMICS: Bob Wickersham
https://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/moonlighting-animators-in-comics-bob-wickersham/
Excerpt;-

In the early 1930s, he joined Walt Disney’s studio, and became a full animator by 1933. He animated on several Mickey Mouse, Silly Symphonies and Donald Duck cartoons throughout the ‘30s. Wickersham worked on a few scenes in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and the “Sorcerer’s Apprentice” sequence in Fantasia, but was uncredited for his animation on both films. He left Disney to work at Max Fleischer’s studio in Miami, which offered a higher salary for preparation of their first feature film Gulliver’s Travels. He worked at Fleischer’s as an animator and story artist, contributing to several theatrical shorts and their second feature, Mr. Bug Goes to Town. 

That explains his pacing. I note also he seems to also do his own lettering.

Cal Howard often wrote the stories for the Kilroys magazine.   

  note, 'Often'. I would hazard a guess that his relationship with writers, was something of a Kirby/ Lee relationship. 
Kollege Kapers.
Don't know who drew this, its a different style, but it's easy on the eyes.
Romance Rides the Airwaves 
I'm a disc jockey mon! Usual visual gag.
Count Screwloose was a strip character by Milt Gross.
Gross Exaggerations: The Meshuga Comic Strips of Milt Gross
https://www.tcj.com/reviews/gross-exaggerations-the-meshuga-comic-strips-of-milt-gross/
So, finally, Happy New Year!
All the narrative elements are there in the art on panel one.
He's getting dressed to go out, there's a picture of Judy on the wll and two football tickets on the dresser and a calendar showing, January One. Subliminal cues.
Pretty obvious conclusion, but plenty of detail and all regular characters used well .

QQ, thank you! You have caused me to find a new wonderful site and introduced me to two creators i was not aware of and whom I will be following up.
The book, Gross Exaggerations looks like something I will have to have.
Thanks again!

Thanks for all of the extra info and links, Panther. I remember seeing the 'Kilroy was here' drawing on things when I was at school, though not so much in recent years. I didn't realise it was on every cover, so good pick up! I'm glad it led you to some other comic book creators and sites you enjoy. I'd never heard of it before and only found it when I was searching for something that included New Year. Always good to discover new things. It's not up there with Archie for me, but not bad either.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

The Kilroys #5 - 1947

This was a new comic book for me. I'd never heard of them before, but according to the inside cover, it's 'the most wanted comic in history', brought to us 'in response to nationwide demand', 'the greatest comics magazine show on earth' etc etc. As Robb mentioned, that's all a bit much. They're certainly setting the expectations high and I don't think they came anywhere near delivering on that. But it was popular enough that they had 54 issues from 1947 to 1955, so a lot of people must have liked them. I liked it, but didn't love it. Not up there with Archie, but I liked it better than the Wilbur comic we did a while ago.  Pretty corny by today's standards, but probably fit with the humour of the day.

Ice Skating is Nice Skating

So I assume the Dad, J. Edgar Kilroy, is named after J. Edgar Hoover. But why? It's funny to show him blowing his top in a number of the panels, though I have trouble with the idea of a 'nice' father screaming at everyone like that all the time. The family seem to take his temper with a grain of salt, so some enabling happening there. But it was a different time and probably seen as funnier than it is now.

Natch looks a bit like Archie, but not as appealing. And why does his friend Jackson have a profile that looks like a pig's head?

An interesting reference to Little America and Admiral Byrd. I had to look up Little America to see that it was in Antarctica. According to my friends at Wikipedia, Byrd was involved in his fourth Antarctic expedition in 1946-7, so it would have been very current. As we saw, he was on the advisory board for the Whiz comic we looked at, so I hope he packed lots of comic books for the trip.

Not a bad gag at the end and some good art. Also interesting use of solid block colours in some places (e.g., red for the father and green for the daughter on p. 3 of the story).

That Weigh In About Women

I remember seeing those weighing machine in department stores, but did they always have fortunes? It was kind of like an Archie or Andy Hardy plot. Not bad.

Ickey Ike

An interesting way to twist what the girls had been saying about fashion and relating it to stamps. Though I thought the red-haired girl was doing Linda Blair's scene from The Exorcist! And I learned a new word. Mucilage is a type of glue. All those years of collecting stamps as a kid, and I never knew that.

Hot-Rod Jockey

I figured 'Fritz Chrysler' must be an in-joke, so I looked it up and discovered there is a violinist called Fritz Kreisler. I liked the slant on the story. It starts as another tale complaining about teenagers and their cars, but the adults end up seeing that the kids could teach them a thing or two.

Kollege Kapers

Obviously they weren't too worried about correct spelling at Kollege  It took me a minute to realise that each panel is a separate gag, rather than four panels that make up one story. Art not as good in this one. The guy who swallowed the harmonica looks like a monkey and the fellow who steps on the girl's feet looks like a ventriloquist's dummy. His head and neck seem plopped on.

Romance Rides the Airwaves

So the guy who is fat-shamed gets his revenge and then his comeuppance. A bit of a nastier bent in this story, so I wasn't crazy about this one.

Count Screwloose

So this was billed as this month's guest feature. Was he a character in another comic or were they just giving him a test run?

I liked his original way of getting over the fence, and we all learn what a kumquat is.  I'm surprised the kumquat killed him rather than all the smoking. Pretty silly, but I guess being farcical was the point.

Happy New Year

A fairly standard New Year's plot for a teen comic, but okay. I was surprised at the mention of Al Jolson as a 'new crooner' when he was getting towards the end of his career when this comic came out (he died in 1950). So is this comic meant to be set earlier than the actual years of publication?

Best line in the comic goes to Katie - "I gotta go wack my rack on a new batch of bubble gum."

And wow, an ad for a ballpoint pen with a retractable point. What will they think of next?

Overall

I thought this book was an interesting find. Seems pretty corny now, but I can see how it would have been a fun comic at the time. Some interesting art and a few story twists. Natch isn't a patch on Archie, but he's better than some. Not a bad little book.

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Kilroys No. 5 (1948)
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=17956

Well, nobody much has commented on this book! And that means, nobody has commented on the catch-phrase, "Kilroy was here!' found on every cover of the series. 

(1) The Story Behind the Phrase "Kilroy Was Here"
https://www.thoughtco.com/killroy-was-here-4152093

(2)Yet again, Australians were probably there first, re 'Foo was here' in WW!.
We do punch above our weight. 
The article notes,

For a few years during and after World War II, he was ubiquitous: a doodle of a big-nosed man, peering over a wall, accompanied by the inscription "Kilroy was here." At the height of his popularity, Kilroy could be found just about everywhere: 

I'm old enough to have seen that doodle in many places.
Somebody at ACG, for it is they, seems to have thought that having a comic based around that catchphrase was a good idea. Not that it was a bad one. It did last 54 issues, which is pretty good for a golden age comic.

(3) Bob Wickersham [Bob Wick]
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/w/wickersham_bob.htm
And here's a site I have not come across before, and will be spending some time on.
MOONLIGHTING ANIMATORS IN COMICS: Bob Wickersham
https://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/moonlighting-animators-in-comics-bob-wickersham/
Excerpt;-

In the early 1930s, he joined Walt Disney’s studio, and became a full animator by 1933. He animated on several Mickey Mouse, Silly Symphonies and Donald Duck cartoons throughout the ‘30s. Wickersham worked on a few scenes in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and the “Sorcerer’s Apprentice” sequence in Fantasia, but was uncredited for his animation on both films. He left Disney to work at Max Fleischer’s studio in Miami, which offered a higher salary for preparation of their first feature film Gulliver’s Travels. He worked at Fleischer’s as an animator and story artist, contributing to several theatrical shorts and their second feature, Mr. Bug Goes to Town. 

That explains his pacing. I note also he seems to also do his own lettering.

Cal Howard often wrote the stories for the Kilroys magazine.   

  note, 'Often'. I would hazard a guess that his relationship with writers, was something of a Kirby/ Lee relationship. 
Kollege Kapers.
Don't know who drew this, its a different style, but it's easy on the eyes.
Romance Rides the Airwaves 
I'm a disc jockey mon! Usual visual gag.
(4)Count Screwloose was a strip character by Milt Gross.
Gross Exaggerations: The Meshuga Comic Strips of Milt Gross
https://www.tcj.com/reviews/gross-exaggerations-the-meshuga-comic-strips-of-milt-gross/
So, finally, Happy New Year!
All the narrative elements are there in the art on panel one.
He's getting dressed to go out, there's a picture of Judy on the wall and two football tickets on the dresser and a calendar showing, January One. Subliminal cues.
Pretty obvious conclusion, but plenty of detail and all regular characters used well .

QQ, thank you! You have caused me to find a new wonderful site and introduced me to two creators i was not aware of and whom I will be following up.
The book, Gross Exaggerations looks like something I will have to have.
Thanks again!

(1) I saw lots of Kilroy signs in several big cities in Europe during the early 1950s.  I even saw some in Canada.  I guess Canadian soldiers saw it in Europe, and copied it at home, or American soldiers drew them when visiting?  I have since seen them all over The World.  It was a "hobby' picked up by lots of people.
We even had our own Danish version of that, called Örva, which can be seen on building walls all over Denmark) It was very big in the 1970s.  It was immortalised by Danish cartoonist, Freddy Milton, in his "Graffiti Mesteren" graphic novel.  The cartoon differs a bit from Kilroy, in that it is a round smiley face, with another circle (protruding) in front, to form the nose.  I assume using the umlaut instead of the Danish Ø, is used to imply it is a Swedish phenomenon, as Danes are too respectful and civilised to deface property.


(2) I didn't know that The Aussies were first with that idea, with "Foo" graffiti during WWI.  Very interesting.  Now that idea has been copied by people all over The World.  I've seen graffiti, stating "I was here!" written by Canaanite slaves working in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula copper mines from 1500 BCE, and in The Egyptian desert from 8,000-9,000 years ago, when The Sahara was still green with lakes and trees.  Back then it was only painted pictures, but no writing, of course.

(3) Bob Wickersham had a long run with WB Animation after Disney, but he also worked about 10 years for Sangor Studios drawing comic book stories for Ben Sangor's ACG and Ned Pines' BetterNedor Publishing.  The The Main artist for The Kilroys was Dan Gordon, who drew this issue's front cover and both inside covers' advert pages.  He drew almost all, if not all the series' covers, and the bulk of the family's stories.

(4) Milt Gross, one of the zaniest cartoon artists had several different newspaper cartoon strips.  We also have 2 comic books of his from 1947, on CB+:  "Milt Gross Comics" in our ACG section.  They include "Count Screwloose" and "That's My Pa" stories, as well as a few one-shots.

[crashryan]

Better get in my two cents' worth before it's too late!

First, regarding Kilroy. I knew the guy with the hanging nose and the phrase "Kilroy Was Here" from my cradle days but I was surprised some years ago by an entry in a British book showing the character with the slogan "Wot, No Char?" written above it. The book said the character was a well-known British invention. It didn't mention Kilroy. Thanks to the Internet I learned that in fact there were two strains of Kilroy, one American and one British, which became intermixed. In Britain the character was originally called "Chad." Wikipedia says he might have been invented in Britain in the late 1930s, spread by British troops during WWII, and eventually conflated with Kilroy. Here's the entry, which has much interesting background:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilroy_was_here

Now, on to Whiz Comics #39

Captain Marvel is an interesting story. Everyone has already commented on its (il)logic. I like that the Italians are are allowed genuinely to reform. Rob makes some good points about the politics of the thing. The story relies on comfortable old stereotypes that would have been familiar to everyone. Utopia is a Romanesque paradise run by wise men in togas speaking stilted English. (Did anyone notice that there are no women in Utopia?) Italians are weak-willed, somewhat comical shoemakers.

I don't want to get too deep into the Fred MacMurray controversy, but in my opinion Captain Marvel was inspired by MacMurray in much the same way Bugs Bunny was inspired by Clark Gable in It Happened One Night. Beck was after the "feeling" of MacMurray's screen persona rather than producing a caricature or a likeness. Tall, solid, good-looking without being too good-looking, tough when necessary but usually just a decent sort of guy. I grant that some of Capt M's features resemble MacMurray's, particularly the chin. Personally, I think Alex Ross' rendition of CM with Fred MacMurray's face looks kind of silly.

While on the subject of Fred MacMurray, I grew up with My Three Sons and The Absent-Minded Professor. When I began to learn more about Golden Age Hollywood during my college years I was surprised to see that he wasn't fit just for comedy roles. Double Indemnity was an eye-opener.

And speaking of likenesses, does anyone remember the Green Lantern episode in which Gil Kane drew one of the villains as President Lyndon B Johnson? I seem to remember it was a story featuring Sonny & Cher clones.

I never paid much attention to Golden Arrow except when George Tuska did the art. Incidentally, the GCD credits Louis Cazaneuve with the art even though it bears Warren King's signature. I think they're wrong. It wouldn't be the first time (see Lance O'Casey below).

The story is typical western hero stuff. Old West folk were awfully eager to hang people. I guess when you only have 8 or 9 pages to work with the public has to jump to conclusions or else you'll run out of space. The main catch here has already been spotted: Golden Arrow tells everybody where he's hidden the suspect. That's a lousy job of hiding. King's figures are rather approximate but his layouts are lively and he does good horses. I was brought up short by the panel of GA standing on his horse. I didn't remember ever seeing that. Then two days later I saw another western in which the hero stood on his horse. Can some equine expert tell me if this was a real thing? Did movie cowboys ever stand on their horses?

I didn't understand Colonel Porterhouse at first because everyone in the story refers to him as "young" Amby Porterhouse who is "just a boy." I eventually realized this is a gimmick. The Colonel is spinning a yarn about his imaginary adventures so we see him as he is today. It's a clever artifice, really. I suspect though that I wasn't the only confused reader.

Despite my well-known preference for realistic-style drawing, there's something about George Storm that has always appealed to me. I like his adventure-story style better than his outright cartoon style. This strip seems a bit rushed. It's funny how the villains all have those oval Segar-style mouths. The story reads like a regular Golden Arrow story with jokes. Porterhouse uses his version GA's trademark "Hi-Yo Silver" stand-in, "Scratch gravel, White Wind!" For some reason GA himself doesn't use it in this issue.

The Mad Artist is an oddball idea for a War Bond ad.

Spy Smasher had a great name and a great costume but his stories were always blah. I haven't seen the serial--maybe he's more interesting on the screen. This story is as rudimentary as you can get. Attending a party with secret plans taped to your chest rather than locking them in a vault? Gimme a break! And how did America Smasher (not a great name) know the General's code was in his office? Anyway, thank goodness for the sharp-eared drunk.

The artist does a nice job, sometimes with a bit of help (panel 4 of our page 44 is a well-worn Alex Raymond swipe).

I like the Lance O'Casey character because he was drawn mostly by Harry Anderson. Which brings me to the GCD credit. Sometimes I wonder who the heck fact-checks their credits. Anyone who knows Clem Weisbecker's art knows this ain't him, and anyone who knows Harry Anderson knows this is him. This may not be Anderson's inks, but many of his signature traits are on display here, including his sexy ladies.

The story is nothing special. I nominate one line of dialogue as the Understatement of the Year: "Pardon, please...I do not feel well," spoken by a guy with a huge knife buried in his back.

Ibis the Invincible gave me the best laugh of the book when the guy who looks like a Dick Tracy villain first sees the genie and exclaims, "Well, hush my mouth!" The rest of the story displays the same faults as every other Ibis story. The Ibistick can do anything except if doing something would solve the problem early. Most of the time Ibis uses it for small jobs like "Make me small!" instead of just saying something like "Ibistick, shrink the genie and put him back in the lamp!" I wonder how many thousands, if not millions, of souls perished when the giant Ibis and giant genie stepped on them.

Thanks, QQ, for recommending this book because it's one I'd likely not have read otherwise.

[crashryan]

The Kilroys #5

Everyone else has already said most of what I have to say about this comic. I didn't think it was so great, though I didn't have Robb's powerful negative reaction. It's just a typical teen comic. Meh stories with occasional smiles, competent but ho-hum artwork.

Pop Kilroy does indeed resemble Henry Trimblechin. He also overacts outrageously. Many of his poses are well-drawn but too extreme for the situation. Best example: the conniptions he goes through when Katie says she wants to go skating after all. Dropping to his knees and begging, with sweat pouring off him, seems overwrought even for a humor comic. However I looked at a few other Archie knock-off comics and noticed many of their fathers also overacted. Maybe it was a shtick?

I don't know what to make of Natch. Much of the time he acts like a typical comic book teen hero but on occasion he seems a bit dimwitted, more like the teen hero's sidekick. Two examples are when he thinks "good news" means a new shipment of bubble gum and when he gets upset when the grocer says Lady Luck smiled on him. Any clearheaded kid would know what that meant. Also, naming him "Natch" seems an odd choice. "Natch" is slang for "Naturally." No one would name their kid this. It's a nickname, then. How did he get it? I dunno. Better just to name him Archie or Wilbur or Ezra or...

On a related subject, I think the background reference to that "new crooner, Al Jolson," was meant to be a joke. Jolson was very old hat by this time, and I believe we're supposed to read the line as demonstrating how clueless the boy is. I may be wrong. In the next panel he sings a line from "The Anniversary Song," which was a huge hit for Jolson in 1946-1947. The comic came out in 1947. Maybe the boy likes the song but doesn't realize Jolson dates back to the 1920s. A bit of trivia: the tune to "The Wedding Song" was written by Romanian composer Iosif Ivanovici in 1880 and had a long life as an instrumental, "Waves of the Danube." Jolson and Saul Chaplin added lyrics in 1946 and gave it new life as "The Anniversary Song."

"Hot Rod Jockeys" offers an inkling of what could have been a nice idea. Pa getting busted by a cop, then discovering his son is dating the cop's daughter, isn't anything new, but the cop shows unexpected depth when he confesses his love for jalopies. This show of humanity might have given an interesting subtext to the series. On one level he and Kilroy are enemies, not because of personal animus but because they want to protect their children from what they perceive as bad influences. On another level they are kindred souls who share a love for speed and a nostalgia for their younger days. Their wavering between these extremes would have made an interesting minor theme. But this was 1947 and comic book characters didn't develop. Everything returned to the status quo ante at the end of each story.

Whoever drew Kollege Kapers drew some very pretty girls. I thought it might be Al Hartley but the figures seem slicker than on Icky Ike.

Nice choice of books, QQ. Thanks.

[Quirky Quokka]

Better get in my two cents' worth before it's too late!
...

While on the subject of Fred MacMurray, I grew up with My Three Sons and The Absent-Minded Professor. When I began to learn more about Golden Age Hollywood during my college years I was surprised to see that he wasn't fit just for comedy roles. Double Indemnity was an eye-opener.

And speaking of likenesses, does anyone remember the Green Lantern episode in which Gil Kane drew one of the villains as President Lyndon B Johnson? I seem to remember it was a story featuring Sonny & Cher clones.

...

I didn't understand Colonel Porterhouse at first because everyone in the story refers to him as "young" Amby Porterhouse who is "just a boy." I eventually realized this is a gimmick. The Colonel is spinning a yarn about his imaginary adventures so we see him as he is today. It's a clever artifice, really. I suspect though that I wasn't the only confused reader.

Thanks, QQ, for recommending this book because it's one I'd likely not have read otherwise.

Thanks for that, Crash. Never too late to comment. We have the DVD of 'Double Indemnity' and I love it. One of the best noir movies of all time. Though I could never quite believe Fred was a bad guy. Hubby and I were just talking about this yesterday, actually. Neither of us can quite understand the allure of Barbara Stanwyck, but we'll blame her for seducing and corrupting the otherwise innocent insurance guy.

Wish I'd seen the Green Lantern story you mention. Lyndon B. Johnson plus Sonny and Cher clones? Has to be a winner!

And thanks for explaining Captain Porterhouse. The joke was lost on me, but that makes sense.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

The Kilroys #5

On a related subject, I think the background reference to that "new crooner, Al Jolson," was meant to be a joke. Jolson was very old hat by this time, and I believe we're supposed to read the line as demonstrating how clueless the boy is. I may be wrong. In the next panel he sings a line from "The Anniversary Song," which was a huge hit for Jolson in 1946-1947. The comic came out in 1947. Maybe the boy likes the song but doesn't realize Jolson dates back to the 1920s.

Nice choice of books, QQ. Thanks.

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't realise that Jolson had a hit with 'The Anniversary Song' around that time, so I think you're probably right that the clueless boy thought he was a new singer. An in-joke for the Moms and Pops.

Glad you found some fun in these books.

Cheers

QQ