[The Australian Panther]

gregjh suggested Charlton's Blue Beetle Reboot and also Charlton's Konga.

So
1/. Here is Blue Beetle #01 (1964) [How not to do it]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=39317
and Blue Beetle (1967) # 01 [How to rescue the concept]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=60066

2/ The monthly Konga comic isn't worth bothering about in my opinion, so
Here is Fantastic Giants 24 - Version 1
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=12846
[With both Konga and Gorgo] - both by Ditko, who along with Kirby was the king of the monster men. + 2 extra Ditko stories!
I remember being stopped in my tracks and blown away when I first saw Fantastic Giants.
I hope this Reading Group selection generates plenty of comment on Ditko, Blue Beetle and Giant Apes  in comics. 
2 points.
First when you are searching for comics on CB+. always - always! look at the one shots. Some of the best gems are to be found there
Second - if you are a newbie or a lurker [I can be a professional lurker] please don't feel inhibited in posting your opinions . You can't embarrass yourself, I know, I've tried!
Cheers!   

[paw broon]

BB 01 [How not to do it]  No! No!No! Great superhero stuff - as David miles notes in his comment.
I'm not saying it's a "good" comic, just that it seems right for the time and it's a good origin story with a great superhero. I love those cheesy BB runs before the Ditko take, which is simply delicious.
As for the monsters, wonderful, especially Gorgo.  I always hoped there would be a Ditko adaptation of The Giant Behemoth, the 1958 film with the great Andre Morell.  What a monster.

[FraBig]

I'm with Paw, I think that 1964 Blue Beetle was the definitve Blue Beetle iteration.
I've always found Golden Age Dan Garrett a bit underwhelming, while this version of the character, an archaeologist that gains superhuman powers from an ancient artifact, is my favourite one.
I think Ted Kord was nicely fit into the overall continuity of the Charlton universe by making him the direct successor of Dan Garrett, but he wasn't as interesting as Silver Age Dan.

By the way, on a slightly unrelated note, does anyone know when and why Golden Age Blue Beetle got superpowers? Because at the start he was just a rookie policeman with a costume, and then in later issues he started doing all sorts of things, like flying. I think it must have happened something in-universe to make him change so much, but I never knew what happened.

[Robb_K]

I'm with Paw, I think that 1964 Blue Beetle was the definitve Blue Beetle iteration.
I've always found Golden Age Dan Garrett a bit underwhelming, while this version of the character, an archaeologist that gains superhuman powers from an ancient artifact, is my favourite one.
I think Ted Kord was nicely fit into the overall continuity of the Charlton universe by making him the direct successor of Dan Garrett, but he wasn't as interesting as Silver Age Dan.

By the way, on a slightly unrelated note, does anyone know when and why Golden Age Blue Beetle got superpowers? Because at the start he was just a rookie policeman with a costume, and then in later issues he started doing all sorts of things, like flying. I think it must have happened something in-universe to make him change so much, but I never knew what happened.

I hope it is a less ridiculous reason than that used by the writers of this Silver Age Charlton version - that the white hot light of a hydrogen bomb exploding directly above an ancient Egyptian king's mastaba was hot enough to melt the lead around the hidden room the hero and heroine had entered, activated a blue beetle scarab that magically changed the hero/archaeologist into the super hero - The Blue Beetle (in addition to bringing back to life the king's mummy, and made him grow into a giant). 

[crashryan]

I admit to not having read every Golden Age Blue Beetle story. That much Fox can melt one's brain. But the impression I have is that the Beetle had no "show bible" and a multitude of writers did whatever came to mind at the time and didn't bother to explain. A large number of GA characters were inconsistent in this way because the idea that a character should be consistent hadn't completely taken root. That said, the Beetle is one of the most inconsistent GA heroes I've run across. His powers change literally from issue to issue. It wasn't helped that he also bounced between publishers.

[The Australian Panther]

crashryan said,

I admit to not having read every Golden Age Blue Beetle story. That much Fox can melt one's brain. But the impression I have is that the Beetle had no "show bible" and a multitude of writers did whatever came to mind at the time and didn't bother to explain. A large number of GA characters were inconsistent in this way because the idea that a character should be consistent hadn't completely taken root. That said, the Beetle is one of the most inconsistent GA heroes I've run across. His powers change literally from issue to issue. It wasn't helped that he also bounced between publishers.

Exactly. That's why, like yourself I have also been in no hurry to read the pre-Charlton revival Blue Beetle. That and the fact, that, for the most part there are few artists and writers on Blue Beetle that interest me. Maybe some of the creators felt the same way?
And that has to be one of the worst costumes. 
DC obviously feels the same way, they have used the Dan Garret Blue Beetle a few times but never consistently.   
Robb_K said,

I hope it is a less ridiculous reason than that used by the writers of this Silver Age Charlton version - that the white hot light of a hydrogen bomb exploding directly above an ancient Egyptian king's mastaba was hot enough to melt the lead around the hidden room the hero and heroine had entered, activated a blue beetle scarab that magically changed the hero/archaeologist into the super hero

Almost every usage of a Hydrogen Bomb or Atomic Bomb in comics in the 50's is ridiculous. Captain Atom? Dr Solar? Great comics but ridiculous and impossible origins. And I love Dr Solar!
Marvel saw radiation as the catch-all key to all their origins.
Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Spider-man, The X-men, Daredevil. All 'radio-active' origins.
Cheers!     

[Robb_K]

crashryan said,

I admit to not having read every Golden Age Blue Beetle story. That much Fox can melt one's brain. But the impression I have is that the Beetle had no "show bible" and a multitude of writers did whatever came to mind at the time and didn't bother to explain. A large number of GA characters were inconsistent in this way because the idea that a character should be consistent hadn't completely taken root. That said, the Beetle is one of the most inconsistent GA heroes I've run across. His powers change literally from issue to issue. It wasn't helped that he also bounced between publishers.

Exactly. That's why, like yourself I have also been in no hurry to read the pre-Charlton revival Blue Beetle. That and the fact, that, for the most part there are few artists and writers on Blue Beetle that interest me. Maybe some of the creators felt the same way?
And that has to be one of the worst costumes. 
DC obviously feels the same way, they have used the pre-Dan Garret Blue Beetle a few times but never consistently.   
Robb_K said,

I hope it is a less ridiculous reason than that used by the writers of this Silver Age Charlton version - that the white hot light of a hydrogen bomb exploding directly above an ancient Egyptian king's mastaba was hot enough to melt the lead around the hidden room the hero and heroine had entered, activated a blue beetle scarab that magically changed the hero/archaeologist into the super hero

Almost every usage of a Hydrogen Bomb or Atomic Bomb in comics in the 50's is ridiculous. Captain Atom? Dr Solar? Great comics but ridiculous and impossible origins. And I love Dr Solar!
Marvel saw radiation as the catch-all key to all their origins.
Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Spider-man, The X-men. All 'radio-active' origins.
Cheers!     

Even Funny Animal Superhero, Cosmo Cat gained his superpowers of super strength and ability to fly from an accident in a nuclear power plant where he worked.  His body absorbed too much radiation for him to remain normal, but not enough to ruin (or even effect) his health.  At least it's not quite as ridiculous as simply saying "Shazaam"!   

[SuperScrounge]

Blue Beetle #1

The Giant Mummy Who Wasn't Dead - Ugh, wannabe novelist opening. That... was not good. It felt like something produced by a beginning writer and the art & Leroy Lettering didn't help. A painful read.

Jungle Waters - Okay.

Freaks of Nature! - Interesting.

Have A Heart - What the what? At first it seems like a medical & crime story, then it morphs into a supernatural story? Bwha? Were there drugs in the Charlton water supply?

Record of the Rocks - Eh. Mesozoic is too late for life coming to land though.


Blue Beetle #1

Blue Beetle Bugs The Squids - Just add a little Spider-Man, Ta-daaa! A much better story than the previous attempt. ;-) The Bug seems to change size throughout the story.

Who Is The Question - Interesting.

[SuperScrounge]

that the white hot light of a hydrogen bomb exploding directly above an ancient Egyptian king's mastaba was hot enough to melt the lead around the hidden room the hero and heroine had entered, activated a blue beetle scarab that magically changed the hero/archaeologist into the super hero - The Blue Beetle (in addition to bringing back to life the king's mummy, and made him grow into a giant).

Actually the scarab was activated before the atomic bomb by the ancient Egyptian wizard/spirit/whatever. The bomb only brought Kha-Ef-Re back to life and made him grow. (As well as various bits of destruction.)

[Captain Audio]

When A-Bombs left victims shadows burned into stone walls it opened the door to wild imaginings of just what strange things radiation could do.

Personally I treasure my fallout induced batwings even though I never figured out how to fly with them, though gliding from roof tops is lots of fun. You should see the neighbors scatter, it never gets old.
The six inch talons do make buying shoes that fit problematic.

[FraBig]

Oh I see, so I guess Golden Age Blue Beetle's powers must only be connected to inconsistency. I wonder if Vitamin X2 has something to do with them, considering it's the chemical that gave Golden Age Blue Beetle powers in one of his stories, but it was never brought up again, as far as I know.

On the usage of H-Bombs and Atomic Bombs... well comics have a weird relationship with physics, and I like them that way. It's fiction after all, everything is possible!

Of all the Blue Beetle costumes, Silver Age Dan Garrett's one is my favourite, I really like the red goggles and the red "fin" on his head. The Golden Age costume is a bit weird and the Ted Kord costume is nice, but not on the same level as his predecessor.

On the DC Comics usage of Blue Beetle I would also add that DC decided to mix together Golden Age Dan Garrett and Silver Age Dan Garrett, so the mentor of Ted Kord for DC Comics is depicted as a Golden Age hero operating in the 1940s (like Golden Age Policeman Dan Garrett) but being an archaeologist that found an alien Blue Beetle in an Egyptian tomb (like Silver Age Dan Garrett). The same blue artifact will then be used by the most recent Blue Beetle, Jamie Reyes.

[paw broon]

We have an example of the French version where he's called Le Fantome D'Acier - The Steel Phantom.
It's here.  Translation of American story or is that Rene Brantonne art?
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=30074
(Apologies: I can't get the circumflex over the "o")

[The Australian Panther]

One wonders if colouring the character Red on the cover was deliberate, to obscure his origin.
Seeing the old costume in black and white reminded me that I have wondered how much influence the Phantom was as  visual inspiration. And the Phantom has been coloured red in different countries too. 
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=30074

[crashryan]

There's a lot to look at this time around. We'll take it in two parts: Blue Beetle and Ditko Monsters. Here's BB.

Blue Beetle #1 (1964) seems to appeal to others but it sure doesn't appeal to me. The character concept isn't especially bad. Powers of ancient Egypt, living mummies...not terribly original but a reasonable pre-Marvelitis minor superhero. The problem is lousy script and art.

Though Joe Gill was a hack, not all of his stories are equally bad. However if one of his scripts ever needed a strong editor, this is the one. Especially the setup in the first chapter. The story lurches from episode to episode accompanied by dialogue that is painfully stiff even by Joe Gill standards. Luri appears after Garrett refuses to lead the expedition and says she wants to "warn" him about the tomb. It sounds like she wants to deter Dan from digging there. But in mid-sentence he says he will go, she expresses eternal gratitude, smooches him, and boom! Off they go to Egypt. Until the next page when they get bored and fly to Cairo for a fancy dinner. Earlier the dialogue suggested that Dan knew Luri before and had been dodging her. She certainly gets right to work romancing him. Adding to the confusion are bits of silliness like Luri visiting Dan in a dancing girl costume or the evil general firing nuclear shells at Garrett's plane from his base in "disputed territory...without value."

Once the superheroics begin things improve a bit but not much. Bill Fraccio's page-a-minute artwork keeps the feature at a uniform "bleah" level. It's annoying that panel reading order is inconsistent when two small panels are stacked next to a double-height panel. One time the upper small panel is followed by the large one, then the lower small panel. Another time the small panels are read one after the other followed by the large panel.

Blue Beetle #1 (1967) marked a Ditko turning point for me. It presented the last Ditko-created hero that I really liked. It also presented the first of Ditko's new wave of self-righteous, preachy vigilantes in the form of The Question. I like Ditko's concept of a high-tech Beetle. I like his costume design and I like the "Bug." I like the Spider-Man-style heroics. And I like that the Beetle has the audacity actually to enjoy being a superhero.

Ditko delivers a solid art job which is unfortunately spoiled by poor coloring and bad printing. When they slap that solid blue-violet on a panel, which they do often, you can't see a darn thing underneath it. The dark scan exacerbates the problem, but I've seen the original comics and most of the blame for unreadability goes to Charlton, not to the scanner.

Rereading this book reminded me just how good Ditko was at drawing figures in action. He had a remarkable ability to draw a superhero from any angle. His versions of everyday people might have been stuck in the 1930s, but for super-anatomy he was one of the best. I appreciate that his heroes have lean, athletic bodies rather than the bulked-up bodybuilder shapes that dominate superhero comics.

I don't have much to say about The Question. The costume, if you want to call it that, is cool, but the rest of the concept is prototype Mr A. It doesn't appeal to me. The characters are all stereotyped straw men created to fit Ditko's life philosophy. By the way, according to an article in Comic Book Artist Ditko wrote dialogue for both these stories despite the credits. For some reason, the story goes, Ditko didn't want a writing credit, so editor Dick Giordano credited D.C. Glanzman instead. D.C. was the brother of artist Sam Glanzman. (I presume Giordano checked this out with D.C. first.) Glanzman never did any writing, it was all Steve D.

One unfortunate production decision hurts the look of both stories. Lettering by "A. Machine" (actually a custom Varityper font) never looks very good, but for some reason thought balloons have been drawn with a solid outline, like dialogue balloons, then a traditional scalloped balloon shape has been drawn within that outline. If you don't get what I mean, our page 16, panel 9, is an example. The result is crude and amateurish. Adding insult to injury, in a couple of panels (for example panel 8 on the same page) balloon shapes were left out altogether and the colorist colored right over the dialogue.

[gregjh]

Gonna get my teeth into these on the weekend. Thank you AP.

[SuperScrounge]

Fantastic Giants #24

Konga - I wonder if the screenwriter was partially inspired by The Murders in the Rue Morgue? Parts of this comic did spark scenes of a movie I watched on TV in the last year or so, although I'm not sure if it was Konga or a similar giant ape movie. The comic wasn't that bad, but there were some roll my eyes moments that probably came from the movie.

With The Help Of Hogar - Okay. Kind of feels like some of the short sci-fi stories he did in earlier Marvel comics and even later in DC's Time Warp.

Gorgo - Now this I had seen recently, of course it was the MST3K version so it was disappointing not seeing silhouettes of Mike and the bots... ;-) A rushed version of the movie. I would have trimmed the early, slow-moving parts of the story pre-Gorgo and would have focused more on the Gorgo parts of the film. As it is we barely get Gorgo in London when we find out it's a baby and mad mama is coming. Sean seems really depressing in the comic, whereas I think he was better in the movie.

The Mountain Monster - I liked this one.

[crashryan]

FANTASTIC GIANTS #24
Issue number 24? Not really. The numbering continues from the Konga comic series.

Konga
Ditko drew the first 15 issues of Konga. Each has many good moments but artwise none compare with this movie adaptation. Ditko pulls out all the stops: careful rendering, vignetted panels, imaginative layouts. As the Panther points out, along with Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko was one of the Kings of the Monsters.

For some reason I've never seen the movie. However a review on YouTube showed enough scenes for me to get a sense it. It was posted by someone calling themselves "Dark Corners" and suffers from a common YouTube malady, the "I'm so clever and funny" syndrome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2w1INr4fTM

YT also has the original trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsdT9_PjdI

The first thing I thought of was how a comic with a good artist can make a low-budget movie look like a mega-million-buck masterpiece. This first occurred to me way back when I read Dell's adaptations of Steve Reeves movies. The Crandall-Evans art made everything look grand and exciting. When I saw the movies everything looked cheap and shoddy (and badly-dubbed). Ditko's unlimited "budget" turned an okay film into a classic. I love Konga's big finish on our page 24, panel 1.

Not having seen the whole movie I'm unsure how the adaptation's script matches up. The comic obviously drops a few items to streamline the story. For instance Decker doesn't try to rape his assistant. But the review and the trailer suggest that Dr Decker deliberately used Konga to murder his competition while the comic shows Decker's thoughts activating Konga without the scientist's realizing it. If you've seen the movie, please clear this up for me. The movie Decker seems a lot like a standard mad scientist while the comic Decker is more sympathetic.

Ditko doesn't seem to have had much reference, if any, to work from. Dr Decker looks nothing like Michael Gough. This isn't unusual. In correspondence Frank Thorne and George Evans told me that many times they drew the comic before the movie was even finished. Often the studios provided very little by way of visual reference.

Gorgo
I'd never seen the Gorgo movie, either. Fortunately YouTube has a nice, full-length print:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoAjSuk9i1Q

The film is a heckuva lot more impressive than Konga. Higher budget, obviously, well-lit and well-directed. The whole thing looks like an upscale British version of a Toho kaiju film, right down to the guy in a rubber suit. Even the model work is reminiscent of Godzilla films, just done better. I enjoyed it.

When drawing the comic Steve Ditko obviously had pictures of Gorgo and nothing else. Everything and everyone else came out of Ditko's imagination. In one case this was a good thing. Ditko's dour teenage Sean fits the story better than the fresh-faced grade-schooler in the movie. Once again Ditko delivers a top-notch job. The underwater action sequences overcome the lousy Charlton coloring and jump out of the page. One thing Ditko tossed in made me smile: in the last panel two little roars are written above the horizon line.

The movie had a simple, straightforward plot with minimal characterization and explanations. The script transferred easily to the comic page. It was necessary only to cut down on details.

Charlton's Gorgo comic had a surprisingly long run, some 26 issues. A few later issues were drawn by Ditko but his contributions were more slapdash than his Konga sequels. Joe Gill, desperate for plots, turned the poor mama monster into a dedicated Commie fighter.

The Bonus Monster Stories

With the Help of Hogar is a visual treat. Ditko dreamed up quirky monsters unlike anyone else's. Some of them, like Hogar, border on the silly-looking, but Ditko's  dramatic storytelling makes them believable. The trick ending of the story isn't very satisfying. I wonder why the writer chose to tell the story Prince Valiant style in captions rather than using balloons.

I liked The Mountain Monster better. The idea of the creature running from himself is a nice one. While both of these stories have capable artwork, they're done in "standard Ditko" and pale beside the grade-A work Ditko did on the feature stories.

A great comic overall. I bought it off the stands and, not having read the earlier printings of the lead stories, I was blown away by Sturdy Steve's renditions of these second-team movie critters.

[The Australian Panther]

That link to the Gorgo movie doesn't work for me.
This one does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5XztPas08I

 

[crashryan]

Sorry the Gorgo link didn't work, Panther. I re-checked it on my machine and it was okay. Perhaps it's some sort of regional thing. But then, your link worked for me as well, so maybe not. Ah, the Internet!

[gregjh]

OK I read most of the earlier Blue Beetle, all of the latter Blue Beetle and the Konga story.

The first Blue Beetle story - the Egyptian Curse or something - is a very common theme and perhaps because it's one I've seen covered in soooo many of these GA comics, it didn't really grab me on this occasion. I read another comment here talking about the story being at the right type at the right time. Perhaps for me it was the opposite. I don't know the Blue Beetle well enough to say for sure but my gut feeling is that the old Egyptian curse/mummy/ancient discovery trope doesn't suit him.

The second Blue Beetle was my winner. Though it jumped in to some kind of backstory I didn't know about, involving a new person taking on the BB moniker, the action was good, even allowing for the standard cheesy exposition and commentary during the fights. I applaud the decision to allocate almost the whole comic to telling one good story instead of three or four tiny, rushed stories.

Konga was a great read with talented artwork and a surprisingly gripping story. It's probably the first GA comic story that actually tweaked my cynical heart strings. As silly as the "thought transference" excuse was, and as basic and tried as the allegories of greed, jealousy and reckless use of power and their consequences are, this one was well above the average.

Thank you for letting us enjoy these comics this week!

Marvel saw radiation as the catch-all key to all their origins.
Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Spider-man, The X-men, Daredevil. All 'radio-active' origins.
Cheers!     

And Ant Man, too, though they refer to it as "particle adjusters" or something.

[Robb_K]

Anyone who wants to host next Monday's Reading Group new book review thread please send me a PM.  I am very busy right now, and can't really spare the time.  Thanks.

[The Australian Panther]

OK!

Blue Beetle #01 (1964) [How not to do it]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=39317

My comment there referred to the art more than anything else.
Starting a series off with art by Bill Fraccio and Tony Tallarico is just asking for failure. Actually, if Tallarico hadn't inked it, it may not have been too bad.
There are two types of costumed heroes, Mystery Men and Superheroes. Superheroes have powers, Mystery Men don't, Superior intellectual and physical abilities yes, but not superpowers.
Blue Beetle was originally a Mystery Man, and this was [I think] the second time they gave him superpowers. (I Count magic as a superpower)
The design of the logo, with the scarab is excellent, but 'The giant mummy who is not dead' is not going to make me pick this book up. 

So, the origin. In an ancient temple, dreams of an ancient wise man who gives him a magic word that transfers him into a costumed hero to do battle with evil. Where have we heard that before? And a scarab too, to trigger all this.
The costume. The red gloves, dark glasses and black belt set off the Blue well and I like that color blue. The lack of an icon or symbol on the shirtfront somehow makes it bland. The rest of the story is by the numbers average and a bit silly.
Blue Beetle (1967) # 01 [How to rescue the concept
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=60066     
Actually I like the logo on the '64 version better.
Eve tho I had bought these off the stands back in the day, I had forgotten that #1 wasn't the actual origin when I posted these. Apologies. But I like the idea of introducing a character this way, straight into the action, we can see what he can do and what technology he uses and that sets us up for more.
The costume is memorable, but I wish it had some contrasting colors. Also, currently DC colors  the character too lightly for my taste.
Once again, Blue Beetle is a Mystery Man and has lost the superpowers.
From this point on, with the exception of Captain Atom, all of Charlton's heroes are Mystery Men - even the mystery woman, Nightshade, who has few superpowers. [Until E-man of course!]
And I quite like that, I wish the Charlton heroes had lasted longer. 
The Question. Here Steve is starting to get preachy.     
A lot of the set-up characters in the first story never got used.
Both characters went on to other things with DC, some of it memorable, some of it not.   

[The Australian Panther]

Re Konga and Gorgo,

Nothing much to add to the comments. Sometimes I'm just glad to have the privilege of introducing the reading group to something great, and this was one of those times.