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Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman  (Read 2390 times)

Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2023, 06:34:50 AM »



However, I hadn't realised that president and famous hunter Theodore Roosevelt was instrumental in changing American opinion about not over-hunting and creating reserves.

Hunters understand the need for reserves. Once people realized that animals can go extinct people kind of realized that if you want to hunt or fish you kind of want to make sure there will be future generations that you can hunt or fish.


I thought it was then a bit ironic that the very brief article on Roosevelt on the next page included the fact that he hunted grizzlies.

He was a manly man! If I remember correctly someone shot him at a campaign event and he still spoke for an hour or so.  ;)

That being said look up the origin of the teddy bear and how his refusal to shoot a bear led to it.


Thanks for the extra info, SuperScrounge. I can understand hunters wanting reserves so that the animals survive for future generations. Similarly, with rivers, lakes or parts of the ocean that have been over-fished. It's mainly hunting purely for sport that I'm not in favour of. If a hunter is killing an animal for food, clothing etc, I can understand that. And I know sometimes animals have to be killed because they're a danger to people or livestock, or because there are too many for the habitat. But I don't like the idea of big game hunting when the aim is just to kill an animal for a trophy or to prove you're a great hunter. I didn't even like the marlin fishing story last fortnight, unless the fisherman took it home and used it for marlin steaks.

I'm not sure what I thought about Roosevelt and his group going on safari for the Smithsonian. I had heard he was a big game hunter, but didn't realise that the aim of that safari was to bring back specimens for the Smithsonian. I was shocked at the number of animals trapped or killed on that expedition - about 11 400. Okay, there were also a lot of insects in that number, but lots of mammals and other wildlife too. On the one hand, a lot of westerners at that time would have been unfamiliar with African animals, so you could build an argument about it being a learning experience. Maybe by learning about them, they can be helped in the long run. I just don't like seeing pictures of people standing over a dead elephant, rifle in hand, looking pleased that they've brought down the poor animal.

Rant over. Cuddling my cavoodle as we speak  :D

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2023, 06:36:01 AM »



I've been away for Easter - I'm just reading all the comments. Will have a bit to say at the end of the week.
I think it's great that we have such diverse opinions!     


Hope you had a good break. We've run amok while you've been gone.  :D

Cheers

QQ
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2023, 07:20:25 AM »

But I don't like the idea of big game hunting when the aim is just to kill an animal for a trophy or to prove you're a great hunter.

Human beings have had a hunting instinct for pretty much ever, and even though we have farms and ranches to raise food to eat, the hunting instinct doesn't just go away.

I suppose you could make the argument that hunting for old comic books or shopping for sales is how some people deal with it, but others need to go out and hunt an animal. Instinct can be a powerful thing. (No, I'm not a hunter, but I've known some.)
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2023, 06:31:02 PM »

‘Crash, I know what you mean about those Charlton scripts. When we went into town to shop, mom and dad would pick us up a comic or two, and on the way home, we’d read them to make the trip  back to the farm go by. And depending on the time of month and the publishing distribution patterns, the DC and Marvels would be gone and you’d get (yup) Charlton.
Now you tell me. Because I never figured it out. What was worse? Charlton romance, war, or western? Sincerely. I do NOT know.
BUT, you DID know you are dealing with ‘less than stellar’ when even mom was hip to them.
Every now and then the stories would totally break down in terms of sense or spelling. We’ve all seen it with the company. Gibberish right?
We’d laugh and tell mom, she’d call it either ‘Cement mixer Mondays’ or ‘Wild Turkey Tuesdays’. Meaning they had gotten into the bottle on Tuesday when they tried to ‘write’ the thing, or they had dumped a dictionary written on little blocks into a cement mixer on Monday and pulled out the woods at random to make up the script. Kingcat, it could have been 'Without meds Wedesdays', too.
What a company.
You know ‘Super, I like that idea about collecting and hunting for comics (or records, or books, or whatever) as a substitute for taking a gun and killing an animal. I bet there is a lot to that. How often have we heard each other talk about ‘hunting down an issue’ or things like that?
Me? Lost the taste for killing things. We had to go over to another farm and help destroy a herd of cows that had the barn roof fall in on them. 40, 50, I don’t know how many.
A lot. It was all hands on deck there were so many, so everybody got a rifle that could handle one.
Anyway, you create an imaginary line from the ear to the opposite eye, and from the other ear to the other opposite eye.
It forms an ‘x’.
Then where that ‘x’ intersects, you aim the rifle. And boy, does it work. The animals legs collapse under it like a card table.
Now I didn’t go vegetarian or anything, I know where my supermarket meat comes from and how. And anyway I try to eat less red meat. You know, increase dietary fibre. Decrease dietary fat.
I don’t get morally outraged if you go on an elephant hunt, but I think it’s a tragic waste. I mean, a person is an adult, do what you like.
But yeah, hunting for a nice House of Mystery or Strange Tales or Tales from the Crypt is to me more fun than doing that card table thing on a giraffe or anything. Cleaner too.


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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2023, 09:53:10 PM »


But I don't like the idea of big game hunting when the aim is just to kill an animal for a trophy or to prove you're a great hunter.

Human beings have had a hunting instinct for pretty much ever, and even though we have farms and ranches to raise food to eat, the hunting instinct doesn't just go away.

I suppose you could make the argument that hunting for old comic books or shopping for sales is how some people deal with it, but others need to go out and hunt an animal. Instinct can be a powerful thing. (No, I'm not a hunter, but I've known some.)

I disagree, very much, that hunting for collectors' items is even an activity remotely related to hunting for animals.  Hunting for animals was a way to obtain food for oneself, or a man's family.  So finding collectors' items to sell to collectors would be, at least, remotely related to the instinct to hunt animals to provide food (and clothing (skins) and material to make tools (bones).  To Me, collecting published reading matter enjoyed as entertainment, and trying to get one example of each those that were issued, and keeping them for himself, fulfills the need for (feeling good by having an example of all the entertainment one can get from the procuror's favourite (or one of his favourite few) entertainments.  And that is more related to being secure in assuring regular entertainment, than ensuring a feeling of doing one's job as a provider for one's family and himself. For many obsessed collector's, it may be the perceived security of chronically obtaining additional good feelings, which may seem to be a more dependable source of those good feelings than than that achieved through dealings with people, which provides higher highs, but also can sometimes bring pain.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2023, 01:25:30 AM »

I just wanted to briefly weigh in the whole hunting discussion. I'm not a vegetarian and I understand the instinct for hunting for food, but I do strongly disagree with hunting for the sake of collecting trophies or to prove your skill at killing animals.  I also disapprove of poaching for "valuable" parts of animals and leaving them to die, as in the case with elephants and rhinos, or harvesting parts of animals for questionable "medicinal" value. And so on.

I can eat a chicken that someone else has killed for me, but for myself I can hardly harm a fly, and I'd've soon starved if forced to provide for myself. I had a friend whose husband kept rabbits and would skin and butcher them on the kitchen table in front of his children, so it certainly takes all sorts, but for better or worse, that's not for me.

QQ, I wasn't sure what you were cuddling for a moment, but I discover that Cavoodles are what we in the UK call Cavapoos. Cute. I own a chocolate Labrador who's a spoiled princess, and however many cuddles she gets, she can always manage a few more!  ;)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 01:29:14 AM by K1ngcat »
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Johnny L. Wilson

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2023, 04:11:23 PM »

Army War Heroes: 1967? We were just becoming aware of the Vietnam Conflict and it was just heating up enough that all of us knew someone who had gone. It certainly wasn’t a time that I was looking for army comics. In fact, I had probably quit reading Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandoes as well as Our Army at War with Sgt. Rock, staples of my junior high school years. Any chance I had to buy comics was devoted to Marvel and I dismissed Charlton Comics as “junior varsity.”

But I have to say that Army War Heroes, at least this issue, was a revelation. Sam Glanzman’s artwork was an incredible blend of color and the kind of detailed cross-hatching I loved in black and white illustrations. And the story of the Iron Colonel had a high enough body count to add some verisimilitude to the narrative. This issue was an eye-opener in more ways than one: 1) knocking the props out from under my non-mainstream (aka DC/Marvel) bias and 2) reminding me that war comics must have still been selling at a time the ‘Nam situation was becoming increasingly less popular.

Voyage to the Deep: I didn’t realize how much exploration must have already gone on in the Marianas by 1962. Not being my field, I thought the exploration was mostly modern. So, imagine my surprise when Ganzman’s visions of the deep-water marine life proved a delightful mixture of reality and speculation (at least, some of them seemed speculative to a layperson like me). I thought the dialogue was banal or ponderous, depending on the moment, but the artwork (again, with the detailed cross-hatching beyond most comic art with which I was familiar at the time) carried the show. Of course, the Sharknado-like panels with marine life swimming above the skyscrapers seemed preposterous (can anything in a story about an elongating submarine be preposterous?), but they provided visually compelling images that could easily amuse. And I loved the full page splash panel on our p. 14 of the PDF, as well as the vision of the hand holding New York in the two upper panels of p. 21. Indeed, the plot was a great excuse for vivid imaginative NYC disasters. Of course, the story is preposterous and its speculative science even more preposterous. But it served as a great opportunity to celebrate Glanzman’s imaginative art.

Marco Polo: This one-shot featured the kind of bold inking I usually liked. But the detailing I admired in the other two comics rendered by Glanzman seems missing. The theory that he turned his pencils over to Dick Giordano seems likely. The detail on Rory Calhoun’s face in the right-bottom panel of our p. 25 certainly does reflect Glanzman’s approach, however. I also was immediately of how uneven hand lettering can be when compared to the more precise but somewhat sterile digital lettering of today.

As for the story, it was mostly predictable. I’d hate to have the bruises under Marco Polo’s chain mail after being hit with all of those swords on p. 13 of our PDF! But our protagonist seems entirely unphased. I wasn’t really thrilled with the story, but the graphics made up for it.
I liked the text adventure about the taxi, sort of a One Step Beyond-style story, but couldn’t stomach the Cold War feature.

All in all, a terrific selection and worth reading!
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2023, 05:41:35 AM »



QQ, I wasn't sure what you were cuddling for a moment, but I discover that Cavoodles are what we in the UK call Cavapoos. Cute. I own a chocolate Labrador who's a spoiled princess, and however many cuddles she gets, she can always manage a few more!  ;)


Hi K1ngcat, I'd heard of cockapoos, but I didn't know our cavoodles were your cavapoos. We have oodles of oodles in Australia - cavoodles, moodles, spoodles, groodles and labradoodles being the main ones. I think they've become popular because they have lovely temperaments and are low-allergy (usually). And I love chocolate labs. Keep spoiling your princess. Here's a pic of my mischievous 8-year-old, Holly  :D

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2023, 05:48:09 AM »


Voyage to the Deep: I didn’t realize how much exploration must have already gone on in the Marianas by 1962. Not being my field, I thought the exploration was mostly modern. So, imagine my surprise when Ganzman’s visions of the deep-water marine life proved a delightful mixture of reality and speculation (at least, some of them seemed speculative to a layperson like me). I thought the dialogue was banal or ponderous, depending on the moment, but the artwork (again, with the detailed cross-hatching beyond most comic art with which I was familiar at the time) carried the show. Of course, the Sharknado-like panels with marine life swimming above the skyscrapers seemed preposterous (can anything in a story about an elongating submarine be preposterous?), but they provided visually compelling images that could easily amuse. And I loved the full page splash panel on our p. 14 of the PDF, as well as the vision of the hand holding New York in the two upper panels of p. 21. Indeed, the plot was a great excuse for vivid imaginative NYC disasters. Of course, the story is preposterous and its speculative science even more preposterous. But it served as a great opportunity to celebrate Glanzman’s imaginative art.



Interesting comments, Johnny. I liked the stream-of-consciousness New York sequence in that comic too. Lots of imaginative art and panels. Even though the story was completely preposterous, as you mention, I liked it best of the three because of the art.

Cheers

Quirky Quokka
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2023, 10:17:01 PM »

Army War Heroes #22

Johnny's comment reminded me of the comic book cultural divide in the late 1960s. Marvel, and to a lesser extent DC (mostly following Marvel's lead) aimed for the youth demographic with a generally more liberal attitude while Charlton remained staunchly conservative. This can be attributed mostly to Joe Gill. While Dick Giordano brought in some younger writers with differing viewpoints, Gill still wrote 90% of Charlton's comics. Gill was definitely of the "get offa my lawn" generation. Romance comics, spook comics, hot rod comics...they all featured short-haired upstanding young men giving long-haired hippy nogoodniks the what-for.

I am no fan of war comics in general, but Charlton's war magazines were especially dreary. Indistinguishable heroes fought cardboard cutout Japs, Krauts, and VC in an endless succession of plotless 8-pagers. Most of  Army War Heroes #22 is the same old same old.

"Bushwhack Pass" is the typical Charlton jumble. A bunch of stuff happens. A "shut mah mouf'" Southerner named Reb appears in midstory and throws a grenade a few pages later. Things blow up. It bugs me when writers don't bother to get even the stock Germanisms right: Americaner instead of Amerikaner, Dumbkopf instead of Dummkopf. Though Gianni Dalfiume's art is well-drawn he cuts so many corners some of the action is confusing. Our page 4 is a good example.

"The Loner" is more of the same, without the benefit of Dalfiume art. Again the fake German is confusing. On page 13 the general tells the captain to do something quickly--schnell--then follows the command with Achtung! I appeal to our German-speaking members: isn't Achtung! used in situations like "Attention!" or "Look out!" rather than "Get going!" as it is here? The captain replies, Jah (sic), Herr General...mach schnell! This sounds to me as if the captain is telling the general "Hurry up!" Perhaps I'm being pedantic. P.S.: was it a German Army regulation that all generals must wear a monocle?

Back in the day, Will Franz gained a reputation of writing more "mature" war stories. His "Iron Corporal" and "The Private War of Willy Schulz" were held up as examples. By the time these features appeared I'd given up on everybody's war comics so I never read them.

"The Iron Corporal" is mature in one sense: a helluva lot of people die messily. The rest of the story doesn't cover new ground. The character interplay isn't much different from that in Sgt. Rock's company, and the enemy soldiers are still faceless ciphers who show up to be killed. I was brought up short by the abrupt ending. I expected a "continued on 2d page following." I wonder if they intended to run the second chapter in this issue but scheduling issues pushed it back. I was bursting with curiosity about why Ian Heath is called The Iron Corporal. So I downloaded the next couple of issues. The answer sure wasn't what I expected.

In the next issue Ian is struck by enemy fire but the bullets bounce off him. Realizing he can't pretend to his comrades that this didn't happen, Ian reveals his origin story. The son of a rich industrialist in the steel business, he was visiting Australia before the War. There some street thugs jumped him and thrashed him to within an inch of his life, breaking all his ribs. Doctors and scientists, funded by Ian's dad, installed an iron ribcage to replace the smashed one. Ian recovered and is now better than new--except that if he goes into the water the extra weight makes him sink like a stone.

It sounds like the start of a superhero war story. However in the issues I sampled the ribcage is mentioned only once and it never plays a role in the stories. Very strange. Overall the strip disappointed me. Yes, the body count remained high and the gritty stories had more personality than the typical Charlton short. In general though they were bargain versions of Kanigher Sgt. Rock stories.

As for the art, I found Sam Glanzman's work disappointing compared to our other Reading Group selections. It seems rushed and the crappy printing does him no favors.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2023, 12:44:15 AM »




QQ, I wasn't sure what you were cuddling for a moment, but I discover that Cavoodles are what we in the UK call Cavapoos. Cute. I own a chocolate Labrador who's a spoiled princess, and however many cuddles she gets, she can always manage a few more!  ;)


Hi K1ngcat, I'd heard of cockapoos, but I didn't know our cavoodles were your cavapoos. We have oodles of oodles in Australia - cavoodles, moodles, spoodles, groodles and labradoodles being the main ones. I think they've become popular because they have lovely temperaments and are low-allergy (usually). And I love chocolate labs. Keep spoiling your princess. Here's a pic of my mischievous 8-year-old, Holly  :D

Cheers

QQ


Thanks for the pic of Holly, she's a real cutie! Wish I could reciprocate but I have a new tablet with no pics of my lovely Lab on it (as yet!)  I was intrigued by the breed names you mentioned and had to look some of them up. I like Groodle, as apparently the alternative is to call the pooch a "Golden Poo" which is much less appealing! Strange to think I was a "cat person" for sixty-five years, since my choccy Amber came into my life, I'm a total convert. I promise photo to follow (eventually!)

All the best
K1ngcat
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2023, 12:56:56 AM »


Army War Heroes #22

Johnny's comment reminded me of the comic book cultural divide in the late 1960s. Marvel, and to a lesser extent DC (mostly following Marvel's lead) aimed for the youth demographic with a generally more liberal attitude while Charlton remained staunchly conservative. This can be attributed mostly to Joe Gill. While Dick Giordano brought in some younger writers with differing viewpoints, Gill still wrote 90% of Charlton's comics. Gill was definitely of the "get offa my lawn" generation. Romance comics, spook comics, hot rod comics...they all featured short-haired upstanding young men giving long-haired hippy nogoodniks the what-for.

I am no fan of war comics in general, but Charlton's war magazines were especially dreary. Indistinguishable heroes fought cardboard cutout Japs, Krauts, and VC in an endless succession of plotless 8-pagers. Most of  Army War Heroes #22 is the same old same old.

"Bushwhack Pass" is the typical Charlton jumble. A bunch of stuff happens. A "shut mah mouf'" Southerner named Reb appears in midstory and throws a grenade a few pages later. Things blow up. It bugs me when writers don't bother to get even the stock Germanisms right: Americaner instead of Amerikaner, Dumbkopf instead of Dummkopf. Though Gianni Dalfiume's art is well-drawn he cuts so many corners some of the action is confusing. Our page 4 is a good example.

"The Loner" is more of the same, without the benefit of Dalfiume art. Again the fake German is confusing. On page 13 the general tells the captain to do something quickly--schnell--then follows the command with Achtung! I appeal to our German-speaking members: isn't Achtung! used in situations like "Attention!" or "Look out!" rather than "Get going!" as it is here? The captain replies, Jah (sic), Herr General...mach schnell! This sounds to me as if the captain is telling the general "Hurry up!" Perhaps I'm being pedantic. P.S.: was it a German Army regulation that all generals must wear a monocle?

Back in the day, Will Franz gained a reputation of writing more "mature" war stories. His "Iron Corporal" and "The Private War of Willy Schulz" were held up as examples. By the time these features appeared I'd given up on everybody's war comics so I never read them.

"The Iron Corporal" is mature in one sense: a helluva lot of people die messily. The rest of the story doesn't cover new ground. The character interplay isn't much different from that in Sgt. Rock's company, and the enemy soldiers are still faceless ciphers who show up to be killed. I was brought up short by the abrupt ending. I expected a "continued on 2d page following." I wonder if they intended to run the second chapter in this issue but scheduling issues pushed it back. I was bursting with curiosity about why Ian Heath is called The Iron Corporal. So I downloaded the next couple of issues. The answer sure wasn't what I expected.

In the next issue Ian is struck by enemy fire but the bullets bounce off him. Realizing he can't pretend to his comrades that this didn't happen, Ian reveals his origin story. The son of a rich industrialist in the steel business, he was visiting Australia before the War. There some street thugs jumped him and thrashed him to within an inch of his life, breaking all his ribs. Doctors and scientists, funded by Ian's dad, installed an iron ribcage to replace the smashed one. Ian recovered and is now better than new--except that if he goes into the water the extra weight makes him sink like a stone.

It sounds like the start of a superhero war story. However in the issues I sampled the ribcage is mentioned only once and it never plays a role in the stories. Very strange. Overall the strip disappointed me. Yes, the body count remained high and the gritty stories had more personality than the typical Charlton short. In general though they were bargain versions of Kanigher Sgt. Rock stories.

As for the art, I found Sam Glanzman's work disappointing compared to our other Reading Group selections. It seems rushed and the crappy printing does him no favors.


Intrigued by your insights, crash, I never read enough Charlton to divine Joe Gill's political affiliations, perhaps the current screen incarnation of Peacemaker hasn't fallen too far from the tree after all?

Which makes me wonder who actually wrote the scripts for the first Captain Atom adventures? They seem more Dove-ish than Hawk-ish, do you suspect Ditko did more than just the artwork? I'd like to think so.

Thanks for a new viewpoint
All the best
K1ngcat
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2023, 03:29:48 AM »

Quote
Intrigued by your insights, crash, I never read enough Charlton to divine Joe Gill's political affiliations, perhaps the current screen incarnation of Peacemaker hasn't fallen too far from the tree after all?

Peacemaker was one of Joe Gill's crazier ideas. "The man who loves peace so much he is willing to fight for it!" I wouldn't be surprised if Joe decided--or was told by Dick Giordano--to hop on this "peace" bandwagon. The best he could come up with was a schizophrenic supposedly "peace loving" diplomat who always seems to find situations which can only be solved by blowing stuff up with the help of his secret super-sophisticated arsenal (the sort of thing every peace-loving diplomat would accumulate). I understand DC turned Peacemaker into a self-righteous neofascist, which aligns much better with the character. The change probably saved Christopher Smith a lot of money on therapy bills.

As for Captain Atom, his early stories were all by Gill. There was a preponderance of Cold War stuff. The more mainstream superhero Cap of the Giordano period were written by David Kaler.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2023, 04:16:10 AM »

Quote
I understand DC turned Peacemaker into a self-righteous neofascist, which aligns much better with the character.

The current iteration of the character is not DC's first attempt. There were, I think- at least two earlier Peacemaker 'limited' series by DC.
Fits DC's current, all dark, all nasty ethos to a tee.
I'm no fan of either the current Peacemaker or the current Suicide Squad or the  current 'reading' of Amanda Waller either in the books or the films.     
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2023, 07:05:48 AM »


Army War Heroes #22

"The Iron Corporal" is mature in one sense: a helluva lot of people die messily. The rest of the story doesn't cover new ground. The character interplay isn't much different from that in Sgt. Rock's company, and the enemy soldiers are still faceless ciphers who show up to be killed. I was brought up short by the abrupt ending. I expected a "continued on 2d page following." I wonder if they intended to run the second chapter in this issue but scheduling issues pushed it back. I was bursting with curiosity about why Ian Heath is called The Iron Corporal. So I downloaded the next couple of issues. The answer sure wasn't what I expected.

In the next issue Ian is struck by enemy fire but the bullets bounce off him. Realizing he can't pretend to his comrades that this didn't happen, Ian reveals his origin story. The son of a rich industrialist in the steel business, he was visiting Australia before the War. There some street thugs jumped him and thrashed him to within an inch of his life, breaking all his ribs. Doctors and scientists, funded by Ian's dad, installed an iron ribcage to replace the smashed one. Ian recovered and is now better than new--except that if he goes into the water the extra weight makes him sink like a stone.

It sounds like the start of a superhero war story. However in the issues I sampled the ribcage is mentioned only once and it never plays a role in the stories. Very strange. Overall the strip disappointed me. Yes, the body count remained high and the gritty stories had more personality than the typical Charlton short. In general though they were bargain versions of Kanigher Sgt. Rock stories.



Thanks for the extra info on the Iron Corporal, Crashryan. That would have made a much more interesting story.

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2023, 02:41:31 AM »


Quote
I understand DC turned Peacemaker into a self-righteous neofascist, which aligns much better with the character.

The current iteration of the character is not DC's first attempt. There were, I think- at least two earlier Peacemaker 'limited' series by DC.
Fits DC's current, all dark, all nasty ethos to a tee.
I'm no fan of either the current Peacemaker or the current Suicide Squad or the  current 'reading' of Amanda Waller either in the books or the films.   


Yes, it's a shame so much of the current DC offerings are dark. I tend to buy back issues or facsimile copies of older DC comics. Some current ones are okay, but some of the covers put me off immediately. You just know it's going to be a dark story. If images look really sinister, they tend to stick in my mind and give me the creeps. Give me my 1967-1977 Batgirl omnibus any day  :D

Cheers

QQ
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2023, 05:49:13 AM »

QQ said,
Quote
  Give me my 1967-1977 Batgirl omnibus any day  :D 

QQ, Both Paw Broon and I are huge fans of the even earlier, [1950's] original Batwoman and Batgirl.. Who was Batwoman's Robin. I'm sure you would enjoy that one too.  8)
There is an omnibus in existence somethere.

cheers!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2023, 07:20:53 AM »


original Batwoman and Batgirl.

Bat-Girl, actually, with a hyphen.

In the mid-'70s, in the pages of Batman Family, Batwoman was brought out of retirement for a few stories. Afterwards Bat-Girl briefly joined the Teen Titans before their book got cancelled.

Sadly, I don't think Bat-Girl and Batgirl ever met, nor did Batwoman and Bat-Girl have more adventures together before... the Bat-editors decided to have Batwoman killed.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2023, 08:04:21 AM »


QQ said,
Quote
  Give me my 1967-1977 Batgirl omnibus any day  :D 

QQ, Both Paw Broon and I are huge fans of the even earlier, [1950's] original Batwoman and Batgirl.. Who was Batwoman's Robin. I'm sure you would enjoy that one too.  8)
There is an omnibus in existence somethere.

cheers!


Thanks Panther. I did borrow a volume from our library called 'Batman in the Fifties' that included a lot of those original stories, including some with the original Batwoman and Batgirl.

https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Fifties-Various/dp/1779509502/

Is that the one you meant? Interesting to see the evolution of the character, but Barbara Gordon will always be my Batgirl  :D

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2023, 08:10:35 AM »



original Batwoman and Batgirl.

Bat-Girl, actually, with a hyphen.

In the mid-'70s, in the pages of Batman Family, Batwoman was brought out of retirement for a few stories. Afterwards Bat-Girl briefly joined the Teen Titans before their book got cancelled.

Sadly, I don't think Bat-Girl and Batgirl ever met, nor did Batwoman and Bat-Girl have more adventures together before... the Bat-editors decided to have Batwoman killed.


Hi SuperScrounge, I had to go and check which one I had. Looks like the hyphen was dropped by the time Barbara Gordon took over. This is the volume I have.

https://www.amazon.com/Batgirl-Bronze-Age-Omnibus-Vol/dp/1401276407/

Really love that era. I'm glad Barbara Gordon is back in the saddle now, and the new versions are okay, but I don't love them as much. Hard to keep up with all the iterations of the Batman family. Some of them have become very dark.

Cheers

QQ
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2023, 09:08:42 PM »

heh heh heh, ‘Crash. I liked that ‘get off my lawn’ comment. Good one.
Kingcat I never noticed the conservative slant either on the Charlton comics until you guys pointed it out. I can see it now, but at the time really didn’t give it any mind. DC used to put MAKE WAR NO MORE at the end of their war comics, and I thought it was just one of those sensible things that people would print. Like billboards of the day that told you to ‘Buckle up and drive safely”

Q.Q. and ‘Panther, I know what you mean about Bat(-)girl and DC being dark. Was going over the original Dr. Strange issues with my grandson and would find myself laughing out loud at Stan’s comments from time to time. It almost came as a shock.

here’s how much I’m turned off the whole thing; I had to LOOK UP the Peacemaker thingy to find out it WAS a TV show. For all I knew it was another movie I didn’t care about. I wish Shazam had come out better.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2023, 11:37:14 PM »

Remembering the Original Batwoman
https://www.boomermagazine.com/batwoman/

then there is this, for fans of Mexican wrestling movies!
The Batwoman (La mujer murcielago)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235608/?ref_=vp_close

Bat-girl Elizabeth Kane (Earth-One)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Kane_(Earth-One)

I think the omnibus I referred to was fan-made so probably won't appear on Amazon.
cheers!

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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2023, 11:38:54 AM »

Well, an interesting fortnight!
I posted examples of Sam's work because I'm 'a huge fan'. I choose three that are somewhat obscure to bring them to wider attention.
It was circumstantial that 2 of them were from Charlton.
I'm only going to review Sam's work in these books.
Army War Heroes 22 [Introducing The Iron Corporal]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=72297
QQ said,
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In fact, the Japanese had already bombed Darwin in Feb 1942.

Most Australians have no idea how close the Japanese came. They sank a Hospital ship off Brisbane and sailed midget submarines into Sydney Harbor and all shipping on the east coast had to be escorted.
Morgus said,
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Q.Q. I know you don’t like war comics, but if you have to check them out, Sam’s work is considered some of the best in the genre. He actually served in the war and his experiences made it into his work.  In softcover, U.S.S. STEVENS collects his D.C. stuff from OUR ARMY AT WAR.   
 
Couple of things about that.
1/ DC never bothered to collect Sam's U.S.S. Stephen's work. I don't know the full story. Jim Shooter, during his term at Marvel, got Sam to redraw most of it and that work was published by Marvel.
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A Sailor's Story / Marvel Graphic Novel #30 (March 1987), a 60-page true account, which he both wrote and drew, of his time on the U.S.S. Stevens during World War II.[16] Unusually for Marvel's graphic novel line, it was released in hardcover rather than as a trade paperback. A trade paperback edition followed, together with a sequel, A Sailor's Story, Book Two: Winds, Dreams, and Dragons, which continued the story up to the end of the war.[9] 
  He also did other war work for Marvel.
2/ U.S.S. Stephens is up there in my top ten of comic masterpieces. It was only a 2 or 3 page insert in Kanigher's War books. But! There were [to my recollection] few battles or warfare. Instead the stories were portraits of the everyday life of the crew and the ship.
3/. It was one of the few [the only?] regular comic strips that was autobiographcal.
The Iron Corporal - this was brought to my attention because there exists in Australia a black and white collection of all the Iron Corporal strips.
Otherwise I would have missed it, since browsing through Charlton's war books does not appeal.
I might find myself doing that to track down all of Sam's work.
Yes, it goes without saying that the Charlton production values - if that's the right word- detract from Sam's work, as they did for all the creators who worked for Charlton.
And I know his work is very individualistic and not to everybody's taste.
Personally, For this one I can forget the narrative and just look at the illustrations. Unlike some artists he does detailed backgrounds and environments. His anatomy is good and his faces expressive. There is life and energy in his work.
Sam did a lot of work for Charlton's War books. And two books for Dell, COMBAT [which we have on CB+ and a book on Arial warfare I forget the name of and can't find when searching on CB+]
Same started his career in the golden age doing superheroes with his brother, but after returning from his national service never worked on Superheroes again. I think the war had a huge effect on his psyche. His work never glorifies war. Much of it is documentary - like Combat - and focuses on the people and the traumas and heroics they went through.
Sam's work has always left a strong impression on me.
The story concerns a platoon whose mission is to find and destroy a nest of big guns firing on soldiers landing on the beach.
In the first four pages we get introduced to the characters and one dies suddenly and senselessly. Then another on page 5., The story has been entirely concerned with the very human protagonists and the real costs of war.
"We have to take some risks. How is this bloody war going to be won if we don't take risks?" The theme of a lot of Sam's War work.
I like the graphic detail of the last three pages. An abrupt ending - no happy wrap-up here.
The story is by Will Franz, not Sam. Anybody know anything about him?
   
                     
   
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2023, 12:12:48 PM »

Voyage to the Deep 1
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=33693
Superscrounge said,
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Thinking further about Voyage To The Deep I wondered if it was a post-divorce issue. (The Divorce is how Western Printing referred to the split between them and Dell.)
The time's about right, I think it happened in mid-1962, the writing not being up to Western's usual stuff indicates that as well.

Well, the writing is certainly up to Don Segall's usual. Maybe Don and Sam thought, there is no copyright or 'book' on this, lets pull all the stops out!   
QQ said,
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I liked the stream of consciousness as Leigh imagined what was happening in New York. Some really interesting illustrations accompanied those sections, like the image of Leigh holding New York in his palm, and the view from his mind's eye.

Exactly!
Morgus said,
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You know, I could have SWORN we did a discussion on Ol’ Sam a while ago. Maybe because it just seems like a good, obvious choice. Glanzman did a lot work for Charlton, and Dell...But if we did, I couldn’t find it.

I'm sure we did, but not in the reading group because I looked through the list of past choices and couldn't find these.
Kingcat said,
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I agree with QQ, the fat shaming is annoying and unimaginative to say the least, was there a "Thin Earl" in the company that "Fat Earl" had to be distinguished from? He was a good fighter, so nobody cared if he was fat? So if he hadn't been a good fighter, everyone would have been disgusted by his chubbiness?   

Fat-shaming is so now. Back then, that was just a nickname. Most were much worse than that. And not necessarily literal. For instance in Australia, any Redhead was automatically nicknamed Blue. Normal bonding behavior for groups of men, I assure you.You wouldn't want to know some of my school nicknames.   
And there was nothing there to indicate that they found him 'disgusting'
CrashRyan said,
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It's this bizarre dream sequence that convinces me the author was Don Segall, he of the "seemingly drug-induced" comic book plots.
 
I think you are quite right, and probably Sam enjoyed working with him, because he gave Sam something wild to draw and stretch out with. 
Kingcat said,
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Thank the lord, then, that Sam Glanzman has enough imagination to rise to the occasion and pull out all the stops so this crazy tale can carry through to it's entirely incredible conclusion. It's an artistic triumph that renders this insane rubbish tolerable, all praise SJG!  If I'd have seen this when I was 12, I'd probably think the whole thing was pretty cool. As my  mental age hasn't progressed that much since 1962, I'm gonna give it a tick and a big gold star. 

We are on the same page! That's exactly why I chose it. 
See, when it comes to comics like this, I am not really concerned with how realistic the story is, particularly when the art is this good.
If I go to an art gallery for an afternoon, I'm not concerned with story, although in another sense all art tells a story, but I'm there because I want to admire the artist's visual information and craft.
I can pull Sam's work out and  enjoy it all over again, as I can with Kirby, Steranko, Ditko and others.
I think comics gave me an appreciation for visual art - which I have a degree in as it happens. [No brag, just fact - Walter Brennan]
For me, Sam is up there with Kirby with his Single and Double-Page spreads. 
Well, I haven't got more to say on this one, you've said it all for me.
Cheers!       
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 294 Sam Glanzman
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2023, 12:54:18 PM »

Marco Polo 1
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=40424

That cover is odd. It looks like several pieces were pasted on top of one another, not a sngle drawing.
So it's a movie adaption and that's why it's not historically accurate and has a love story.
Looking for the movie on YouTube, I found 3 Marco Polo movies, starring
1/ Horst Buckholtz,
2/ Gary Cooper
3/ Don Diamont, Jack Palance, Oliver Reed

But I think this is the Les Baxter soundtrack to this one. Look at the logo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRItMVlnjLU&list=OLAK5uy_mwWXsv31oU59zQKg98ZmrJpcZzZ6cHyWg
Hmm! A first! Never wrote a comic review while listening to the soundtrack before.
The movie starts in the middle of the full story.
The coloring in this scan is above Charlton's average.
The writing is dull. Obviously they were given a script that closely followed the movie. Sam's art gives the script its only life and energy. It's restrained for Sam. He couldn't stretch out on this one. 
The script makes what should be a good action-packed story dull.
We know that Marco Polo didn't marry on his trip, so they had to part, but it's still a strange ending for a Hollywood movie.
Also, How did Charlton end up doing a movie adaptation? It's a bit of a one-off.
Better than the average Charlton, but I think Dell would have done a better job.   
Save the Beasts
Things aren't always what they seem.
Currently there are animal rights groups in the UK and Europe wanting to ban Hunting Preserves in Africa.
However, statistics show that where animals are in preserves and hunting is under strict control, numbers are increasing and so is the health of the animals. Also the fees that the hunters pay make the preserves economically viable.
Outside the preserves, poachers are hunting animals indiscriminately to extinction.
Personally, I'm no fan of hunting, but I think it would clearly be counterproductive to ban hunting preserves.
I think that's probably what Teddy Roosevelt had in mind. He was a bit of a visionary.         
 
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