[paw broon]

As there's been mention that Mr. Kubert wasn't interested in drawing superheroes I'd draw your attention to the simply wonderful depictions of Hawkman in Brave and Bold.  OK, I'm biased but that's how a superhero should look.
Tor, while the art is impressive, I prefer Turok.  But like bowers, I also am a fan of Star-Spangled-War-Stories.

[K1ngcat]

As there's been mention that Mr. Kubert wasn't interested in drawing superheroes I'd draw your attention to the simply wonderful depictions of Hawkman in Brave and Bold.  OK, I'm biased but that's how a superhero should look.
Tor, while the art is impressive, I prefer Turok.  But like bowers, I also am a fan of Star-Spangled-War-Stories.

Well said, paw, I also have fond memories of Kubert's Hawkman. As for Devil Dinosaur, a gallery of covers featuring the War That Time Forgot seem to feature an awful lot of red T.Rex's.  Maybe Kirby'd read some Star Spangled War Stories too?

[K1ngcat]

Children's book author Sandra Boynton on Twitter posted "An editor told me pointedly how popular dinosaur books are, and also how popular truck books are. In reply, I jokingly suggested this title. And then I thought: WAIT! I'D BUY THAT! So now I'm on it." The book title is Dinosaurs in Trucks Because Hey Why Not? It'll be her next book.

The artwork is luscious , but I don't think I'm quite ready for Jurassic League.

[crashryan]

Tor #3

Joe Kubert is really hitting his stride in this issue.

Before going to the stories and art I want to mention something I didn't say when talking about the previous issue. The coloring on the Tor stories is exceptional. The cover would have jumped off the newsstand and the opening splash is phenomenal. I would almost swear the colorist was working with a larger palette than comics typically had in the 50s. The red-orange gradients and the fades in the blue skies are effects you didn't see in other comics. Maybe it's simply a sympathetic colorist doing an extra-careful job. I wonder if Joe did the coloring himself.

For stories we have two human sacrifices in one issue. Once again I was brought up short by Tor killing a man with his bare hands. I would expect it from a brute like Conan but Tor is presented as more of a "modern," thinking man. As a caveman I'd expect him to kill without remorse, but as Our Hero I would expect at least regret having to do it. Kubert's take on it is probably more historically accurate.

Our page 12 is a great action page but I don't understand the geography in the last two panels. Does Tor swing outward on the rope, knocking the snake back? If so why isn't he tangled up with the snake when it falls? We could have used a wider shot to clarify the action.

The apologia on page 17 show you some things never change. I'm pretty sure those who complained weren't satisfied by Kubert and Maurer's hedging, especially when Joe introduces the Garden of Eden as a metaphor rather than as literal truth. They asked for it, though. This is what comes with presenting a caveman-and-dinosaurs comic as scientifically accurate.

Black Valley's splash "panelrama" is a knockout. The art is terrific throughout, as is the coloring. The color for the night scene on the lower half of page 21 sets the mood beautifully. The notion that the amazons keep their society running by adopting sacrificed girls is interesting. Unfortunately the story ends abruptly. It could have used another page or two portraying the reconciliation of the tribes.

Alex Toth seems to have rushed Danny Dreams. The drawing is solid, of course, but the inks are somewhat diagrammatic. I still don't care for the feature. In each story Danny saves the (bygone) day by inventing or helping someone else invent some well-known gimmick.

This episode offers some interesting questions for a present-day writer to explore. Everyone in the tribe thinks Danny is Bruk the weaver's assistant. What happened to the real Bruk when Danny replaced him? Is Bruk teleported somewhere else (1953, perhaps) or does Danny inhabit Bruk's body and Bruk's mind is somehow turned off? What's happening with Danny's 1953 body all this time? Danny being trapped in the past suggests that Uncle Jim wouldn't be able to waken him. What if Uncle Jim thinks Danny's in a coma? He panics and rushes Danny to the hospital where they discover--what?

Of course there's the possibility that Danny's experiences really are dreams, and the dreamworld is an alternate reality. Danny's friends and family think he's losing his mind. Danny himself is unsure. If he dies in the dreamworld will his body die too? This could be an interesting series after all.

[Quirky Quokka]

Tor #3

The apologia on page 17 show you some things never change. I'm pretty sure those who complained weren't satisfied by Kubert and Maurer's hedging, especially when Joe introduces the Garden of Eden as a metaphor rather than as literal truth. They asked for it, though. This is what comes with presenting a caveman-and-dinosaurs comic as scientifically accurate.

Yes, I thought that was interesting too. It's not unusual of course for some in the scientific community to be at odds with some who are in the religious community, but they were blending science with a fantasy tale anyway. I did wonder whether the publisher strongly urged them to do this 'sort of' apology to appease readers. If they got a lot of Bible-believing people offside, would that have affected their comic code status? I don't know. An apology (or justification?) isn't something you usually see after one issue of a new comic though.

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Tor #3

The apologia on page 17 show you some things never change. I'm pretty sure those who complained weren't satisfied by Kubert and Maurer's hedging, especially when Joe introduces the Garden of Eden as a metaphor rather than as literal truth. They asked for it, though. This is what comes with presenting a caveman-and-dinosaurs comic as scientifically accurate.

Yes, I thought that was interesting too. It's not unusual of course for some in the scientific community to be at odds with some who are in the religious community, but they were blending science with a fantasy tale anyway. I did wonder whether the publisher strongly urged them to do this 'sort of' apology to appease readers. If they got a lot of Bible-believing people offside, would that have affected their comic code status? I don't know. An apology (or justification?) isn't something you usually see after one issue of a new comic though.

Cheers,
QQ

Based on the fact that THIS apology came AFTER The first issue had its run, and time went by for the 2nd (3-D) issue to have its run, rather than at the beginning of the series, leads me to believe that they received a lot of letters to the editorship from Bible Thumper parents of readers, who were strict interpreters of The Word, complaining that "Old Earth" theories were represented, but that their own  "Young Earth" theory was not, and that would mislead and confuse young readers and interfere with their proper education.

[K1ngcat]

Tor #3

Joe Kubert is really hitting his stride in this issue.

Before going to the stories and art I want to mention something I didn't say when talking about the previous issue. The coloring on the Tor stories is exceptional. The cover would have jumped off the newsstand and the opening splash is phenomenal. I would almost swear the colorist was working with a larger palette than comics typically had in the 50s. The red-orange gradients and the fades in the blue skies are effects you didn't see in other comics. Maybe it's simply a sympathetic colorist doing an extra-careful job. I wonder if Joe did the coloring himself.

The apologia on page 17 show you some things never change. I'm pretty sure those who complained weren't satisfied by Kubert and Maurer's hedging, especially when Joe introduces the Garden of Eden as a metaphor rather than as literal truth. They asked for it, though. This is what comes with presenting a caveman-and-dinosaurs comic as scientifically accurate.

I have to agree with cash, and Robb, who've both noticed the exceptional colouring on Tor, the shades of red and orange, the blues and deep purples suggest the colourist had more than the usual palette at his disposal. I wonder if this required an unusually flexible printer, as they're not shades seen in the average comic of this period. As suggested, perhaps Kubert himself was involved in the process. Whatever, the result is spectacular.

I also feel that Kubert and Maurer brought these criticisms on themselves by presenting their work of imagination as the result of detailed research. In the end they were forced into a corner where they couldn't really have their cake and eat it, without potentially offending the parents who paid the pocket money that purchased the comics.

QQ, I don't know if their attitude would've affected their Comics Code status, but it could've severely affected their sales!

Thanks to you all for your input
All the best
K1ngcat

[The Australian Panther]

I think it's worth noting that TOR # 3 was published in 1954, the same year that 'Seduction of the Innocents' was published and was getting a lot of media and political attention.
It's not unlikely that there was a flow-on effect, and many publishers felt that they had to cover themselves from perceived criticism. EC was put out of business. 
Tor was not a horror comic but was more than a little violent!

[K1ngcat]

I think it's worth noting that TOR # 3 was published in 1954, the same year that 'Seduction of the Innocents' was published and was getting a lot of media and political attention.
It's not unlikely that there was a flow-on effect, and many publishers felt that they had to cover themselves from perceived criticism. EC was put out of business. 
Tor was not a horror comic but was more than a little violent!

You've got a point there, Panther. The Tor comics were all pre-code, but at the time of Wertham's "Seduction" many publishers would have been nervous of having their output facing similar criticism. The death of EC and the introduction of the crippling Comics Code was the sad result. 

[Quirky Quokka]

Tor

Sorry, I'm a bit late getting to this second comic. As others have said, the art is exceptional. I especially liked the action pieces. They were also trying something a bit different with the Panelrama shot, that was the first of a series of cartoons that were 'super action pics suitable for framing'. A nice idea. But can we pause for a minute to admire the red-headed woman's hair? This was the 1950s, but she is channeling Wonder Woman of the 1980s and 1990s. How did she keep her hair like that while living with cavemen and dinosaurs? Surely a mystery as deep as that of how the humans and dinosaurs came to be living together in the first place. 

I can see that they were also trying to appeal to parents and teachers, with the educational value of the fact sheets about dinosaurs; and the 'sort of' apology/rationale to allay criticism. A shame the original series didn't seem to have lasted long. Though DC and Marvel later revived some Tor stories. (It was on Wikipedia, so it must be true  )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(comics)

Thanks for the choices, K1ngcat. It was interesting.

Cheers

QQ

[K1ngcat]

Tor

Sorry, I'm a bit late getting to this second comic. As others have said, the art is exceptional. I especially liked the action pieces. They were also trying something a bit different with the Panelrama shot, that was the first of a series of cartoons that were 'super action pics suitable for framing'. A nice idea. But can we pause for a minute to admire the red-headed woman's hair? This was the 1950s, but she is channeling Wonder Woman of the 1980s and 1990s. How did she keep her hair like that while living with cavemen and dinosaurs? Surely a mystery as deep as that of how the humans and dinosaurs came to be living together in the first place. 

Hi QQ

I hear what you say about the redhead, but it's a rule that seems to apply to lots of comics from this period (and probably still does now.) Unless there's a specific reason for a woman to be unattractive, like she's a witch or an old hag, they're pretty much always good looking, and no matter how ugly the men are, whatever time the story's set in, the ladies always look attractive and contemporary.

Even in Eisner's Spirit, no matter what hideous caricatures Ebony and his friends are, little black girls look pretty much like perfectly normal little black girls. I don't really know why this is, it just seems to be the norm. Explanations are invited!

All the best
K1ngcat

[SuperScrounge]

Unless there's a specific reason for a woman to be unattractive, like she's a witch or an old hag, they're pretty much always good looking

And then there's the reverse situation where a woman is said to be extra good looking, really gorgeous, but the artist is incapable of making them look better than all the other women in the story. 

[The Australian Panther]

Paw wrote,

there's been mention that Mr. Kubert wasn't interested in drawing superheroes

What I actually said was,

It was always clear to me that Joe wasn't interested in drawing Superheroes. He did very little of that. 

I should have said,
"Wasn't primarily interested in drawing Superheroes"
It was always clear to me that his preference was to draw more realistic characters than characters in head-to-toe Spandex, and that includes Hawkman who does not wear Spandex.

  He is best known for his work on the DC Comics characters Sgt. Rock and Hawkman. He is also known for working on his own creations, such as Tor, Son of Sinbad, and the Viking Prince, and, with writer Robin Moore, the comic strip Tales of the Green Beret. 

None of these are Spandex-wearing Superheroes. And I would add Enemy Ace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Kubert
Yes, the article then goes on to list,
"penciling and inking the 50-page "Seven Soldiers of Victory" superhero-team story in Leading Comics #8 (Fall 1943)" And "The Kanigher/Kubert team created the Thorn in Flash Comics #89 (Nov. 1947)"
I didn't remember his art on the Tales of the  Green Beret comic book, so I wondered about that, but it was for the Newspaper strip. 
Re, 3D Comics,

In the 1950s, he became managing editor of St. John Publications, where he, his old classmate Norman Maurer, and Norman's brother Leonard Maurer produced the first 3-D comic books,[15] starting with Three Dimension Comics #1 (Sept. 1953 oversize format, Oct. 1953 standard-size reprint), featuring Mighty Mouse.[9] According to Kubert, it sold a remarkable 1.2 million copies at 25 cents apiece at a time when comics cost a dime. 

As QQ said,
Its on Wikipedia so it must be true! 

[The Australian Panther]

Tor #3
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19170
Spectacular and well-designed cover!
Back then, I believe, the cover was seen as crucial in grabbing the buyers attention.
He uses here, what I think was a Kirby technique, since at the time Kirby used it constantly.
Compose the cover in such a way, that the lines draw the eye toward the centre of the cover where the focus of the drawing is, and do it somewhat indirectly if you can. Here the focus is the white light highlighting 1,000,000 years ago.
 
This is a superb example! And the colours are used as part of the composition.
[Just paused to save that cover to my cover gallery.!]
Isle of Fire!
Page one - beautifully composed.
Chee Chee is annoying to the modern reader, but the character serves a purpose. The narrator finds it easier to tell a story if the main character can talk to someone, so having him talk to Chee Chee fulfills that purpose. 
We won't mention the fact that the Albino monster men speak perfect english, or that the tribe he rescues are racially European. 
Female Hairdos? Hollywood did that all the time! And who did Wilma's hair anyway? 
Tor says to the Baddie, 'You fat coward!' which he clearly is, but we won't mention Stereotypes either. 
Black Valley
The pose Tor is in in the PANELRAMA anticipates a famous Conan story by a decade or two.
And who did and decorated the [Blonde] child's hair? [Actually that brings up other questions,which are giving me a headache.]
"We care for our own, Manbeast! If it were not for you and your kind, we would not be forced to live in the Black valley....saving ourselves through sacrifice!" Says the Redhead. 
This too, seems well ahead of it's time!
Page 22, Panel 5 - Spectacular. Yes the coloring on the book is outstanding, but I begin to wonder if they didn't overdo it?
Look at the women's hair, every colour under the rainbow, well except blue and green, Actually the Picts did use blue back then.
History of Prehistoric Animals
These tend to be the least interesting of Kubert's work here, probably because they are static and not interacting with anything or anybody.
Danny Dreams
Thank you Kingcat for pointing me to a Toth work that I wasn't aware of.
Complete with Self-Portrait with pipe and pencil behind the ear.
As superb a piece of work from Toth that I have ever seen.
Was he competing with Kubert? From what I know of Toth, quite possible.
To my mind, the narrative, unlike the Tor narratives is quite realistic and, who knows, net fishing may have originated that way.
Reading this review, you could conclude that I am totally negative about this book, far from it!
I've been enjoying myself writing this and looking closer at the work. And I'm more in awe of Kubert's work here than I was when I started. 
Great choices, Kingcat! 

 
   
   
   

[The Australian Panther]

Tomorrow,
QQ is back!
Cheers!

[crashryan]

And then there's the reverse situation where a woman is said to be extra good looking, really gorgeous, but the artist is incapable of making them look better than all the other women in the story.

It always seemed to me that the real challenge was faced by the artists of those "plain Jane wins guy by becoming beautiful" stories. Most artists learn to draw one standard young-pretty woman. Older women, no problem, crones, no problem. But romance editors seemed afraid to show the heroine of an ugly-duckling story looking too ugly in her duckling stage. They likely reckoned--rightly, perhaps--a reader wouldn't sympathize with an unattractive heroine. So the artist was tasked with drawing an almost-unattractive-but-not too-attractive young woman. A tall order--try it sometime. Most addressed the issue by adding props like eyeglasses, drawing hair in a tight bun or childish braids, or showing "tomboyish"clothes like overalls or jeans and a baseball cap. Nothing "mannish," though. Heaven forbid she should dress like Marlene Dietrich.

[SuperScrounge]

Most addressed the issue by adding props like eyeglasses, drawing hair in a tight bun or childish braids, or showing "tomboyish"clothes like overalls or jeans and a baseball cap.

I call that Hollywood Ugly after seeing it in a few films. Take a pretty actress, give her glasses, a bad hairstyle, & frumpy clothes... "Oh, my god, she's hideous!!!"   

[K1ngcat]

Well, like the Panther said, our Quirky Quokka has already posted her choices for Reading Group #302, so a big thank you to everyone for your ideas, observations, and information, I've enjoyed and appreciated all your contributions. Looking forward to the next one!

All the best
K1ngcat

[K1ngcat]

Most addressed the issue by adding props like eyeglasses, drawing hair in a tight bun or childish braids, or showing "tomboyish"clothes like overalls or jeans and a baseball cap.

I call that Hollywood Ugly after seeing it in a few films. Take a pretty actress, give her glasses, a bad hairstyle, & frumpy clothes... "Oh, my god, she's hideous!!!"   

Yes, the glasses and tight bun are the first things you ask a girl to remove before you can fall in love with her.