[SuperScrounge]

Brenda Starr #1

The Poisoned Black Orchid
Kind of feels like a condensed version of a newspaper strip storyline. It has the melodrama, and the cutaways to supporting players, but the story doesn't go on as long as a newspaper strip would. I'm not sure it was based on a strip storyline, but it feels like the writer was familiar with the elements that the strip would use.

The title was certainly 'clickbait'. The poisoned bit was just a very minor plot point in the overall story.

I would guess the wedding dress page might have been a Sunday page. The Introducing page feels like the sort of promo piece that would go to a new paper just picking up the strip.

Not sure how the Roman Soldiers fit into the story. 

SuperScrounge had mentioned that Mike Grell assisted by doing the bodies in later comics, but that may have been after this one.

Yeah, Lambiek lists him as her assistant 1972 to 1973. So well after this comic.

[The Australian Panther]

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=26496
Brenda Starr #13 – June 1955 – Charlton

Cover
I would think Dale did this for the comic cover. Full Cast. Did the dog ever grow?
Photo Bio
Nice to see the art full size. Reference material at the top of the drawing board. Crash, what size brush might she have in her hand?
The story.
Starts at the end of the previous narrative. But it's not confusing.
Mrs Palmer has never met Brenda and yet she's prepared to let her stay in her flat for two years.
Of course this is just a set-up for the coming hi-jinks.
Believe fit or don't!

From Afrikaans skeef (askew) SOUTH AFRICA, 1969 skeenteen noun used as an imaginary high number 

Two things make me think that Dale was influenced by Chester Gould at this point in her career.
One the parade of bizarre characters.
Pogoloto, The Olga twins, Wendi the wrestler - I think the narrative has been shortened here. There would have been more. Timber Woods?   
Note the visual gag - The Olga twins line up at the bathroom with Hotel Towels. 
Two the narrative structure is reminiscent of Gould's work.
The comic book editor obviously made the choice to leave out as much of the sub-plots as possible and that makes the narrative disjointed. Because we get bits of the subplots but only bits. 'Hedda Hopper said it wasn't going to be born iuntil July.' Comic strips were seriously popular at that time, so I think this is a 'Breaaking the forth wall' crack at the real Hedda Hopper. Having comic strip characters give birth to children seemed a good way to build up an an audience. Dick Tracy's wife also had a prolonged pregnancy before giving birth to her daughter, Bonnie Braids.
The narrative is finalized in the next issue which we have here on CB+.
Not bad!   

     

[SuperScrounge]

From Afrikaans skeef (askew) SOUTH AFRICA, 1969 skeenteen noun used as an imaginary high number

Ah! So like Zillion, or Bajillion.

Two things make me think that Dale was influenced by Chester Gould at this point in her career.

Well, they both worked for the same paper and syndicate. They may have even known each other.

[Quirky Quokka]

SuperScrounge said:

Re Brenda Starr #6 -

According to the Brenda Starr Wikipedia entry, Abretha first appeared in August 1941 so all these strips would be from 1941.

and re Brenda Starr #13 -

According to Wikipedia, Atwell Livwright took over the paper in 1948, and Abretha left in June 1948, which pretty much dates all these comics to early to mid 1948 (and given the story says the Taylor's child was born in June, then this is probably Abretha's last big story).

Thanks for picking that up, SuperScrounge. I was going by the cover dates and didn't realise they were compilations of much earlier strips.

The Brenda/Vera thing kind of reminded me of when Diana Prince would wonder about Steve Trevor ignoring her while being in love with Wonder Woman.

Ah, the perennial makeover trope. Take a woman's glasses off and let down her hair, and voila ... she's a supermodel. Not to mention Lois Lane failing to recognise that Clark Kent's face was identicial to Superman's except for the glasses. Though Lois did suspect early on. 

Abretha has slimmed down in the seven years since her introduction. She can probably fit in the kitchen now.

Yes, I noticed that too. I wonder if the comic strips in between showed her bowing to societal pressure and dieting. Or did they just decide to make her less rotund?

The Trigger-Happy Stranger!
What's a good match for Brenda Starr stories... a western! Bwha? 

Maybe Brenda could jump strips, knock the floozy out and convince the outlaw to change his ways. 

Cheers

QQ

[crashryan]

Interesting to see what became of Brenda at Superior Publications. I hadn't examined any issues following the one we discussed, #6, but took a look after reading the issue just posted, #11.

Somewhere between #6 and #9 they dumped the strip reprints and began publishing new material. What a change! Not only does Brenda look nothing like Brenda.  All the strip's characters and themes are gone. There's no attempt to follow Messick's style, either in art or story. It's just generic Iger/Farrell action-adventure slop with a heroine named Brenda. I suppose they kept the Brenda Starr title in hopes of drawing in newspaper strip fans. I notice that none of the Superior books, even the reprint issues, have a syndicate copyright notice in the indicia. I wonder why not.

[SuperScrounge]

The Brenda/Vera thing kind of reminded me of when Diana Prince would wonder about Steve Trevor ignoring her while being in love with Wonder Woman.

Ah, the perennial makeover trope. Take a woman's glasses off and let down her hair, and voila ... she's a supermodel.

Well, Wonder Woman also wears a skimpier outfit than Diana Prince. It's probably the cleavage that Steve uses to identify her. 

Not to mention Lois Lane failing to recognise that Clark Kent's face was identicial to Superman's except for the glasses. Though Lois did suspect early on. 

1942's Man Or Superman, printed in Superman #17, actually. The first of decades of "Lois tries to prove Clark is Superman" stories.

There's a 1941 comic strip storyline where a talent scout for Mammoth Studios recognizes Clark as Superman and Lois says, "Well... I must admit there is a slight resemblance, if you stretch your imagination to it's greatest extent."

The Trigger-Happy Stranger!
Maybe Brenda could jump strips, knock the floozy out and convince the outlaw to change his ways. 

Yeah, she could convince him to wear an eyepatch and grow orchids. 

[Quirky Quokka]

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=26496
Brenda Starr #13 – June 1955 – Charlton

Photo Bio
Nice to see the art full size. Reference material at the top of the drawing board. Crash, what size brush might she have in her hand?

...

Comic strips were seriously popular at that time, so I think this is a 'Breaking the fourth wall' crack at the real Hedda Hopper.

Hi Panther, one of the reasons I picked this issue was because of the artist pic and bio. Always good to put a face to the artist. I wonder how many readers had previously thought she was a man?

And I liked the cultural reference to Hedda Hopper. I have all of the original 'I Love Lucy' DVDs from the 1950s, and there's an episode where they were staying at a hotel in Hollywood and Lucy tried everything to get Hedda Hopper to notice her, of course with disastrous results. The real Hedda Hopper guest starred. I wonder if it was strategic to mention Hedda in the comic strip in the hope that they would get a mention in her column?

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Interesting to see what became of Brenda at Superior Publications. I hadn't examined any issues following the one we discussed, #6, but took a look after reading the issue just posted, #11.

Somewhere between #6 and #9 they dumped the strip reprints and began publishing new material. What a change! Not only does Brenda look nothing like Brenda.  All the strip's characters and themes are gone. There's no attempt to follow Messick's style, either in art or story. It's just generic Iger/Farrell action-adventure slop with a heroine named Brenda. I suppose they kept the Brenda Starr title in hopes of drawing in newspaper strip fans. I notice that none of the Superior books, even the reprint issues, have a syndicate copyright notice in the indicia. I wonder why not.

Wow Crashryan, you've gone above and beyond the call of duty by checking out those extra issues. Thanks for the extra info.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

The Brenda/Vera thing kind of reminded me of when Diana Prince would wonder about Steve Trevor ignoring her while being in love with Wonder Woman.

Ah, the perennial makeover trope. Take a woman's glasses off and let down her hair, and voila ... she's a supermodel.

Well, Wonder Woman also wears a skimpier outfit than Diana Prince. It's probably the cleavage that Steve uses to identify her. 

Not to mention Lois Lane failing to recognise that Clark Kent's face was identicial to Superman's except for the glasses. Though Lois did suspect early on. 

1942's Man Or Superman, printed in Superman #17, actually. The first of decades of "Lois tries to prove Clark is Superman" stories.

There's a 1941 comic strip storyline where a talent scout for Mammoth Studios recognizes Clark as Superman and Lois says, "Well... I must admit there is a slight resemblance, if you stretch your imagination to it's greatest extent."

LOL, yes there were other attributes that Steve could use to recognise Wonder Woman. I couldn't help thinking of the 1970s TV Show. How did Lynda Carter manage to do anything in that skimpy outfit? Then they covered her from neck to toe for her cameo as a different character in 'Wonder Woman of '84'. Worth the whole movie just to see her pop up at the end. I bet Gal Gadot was pleased they gave her version of WW a different costume.

It's interesting that Lois suspected Clark was Superman from early on. But then when they did the big reveal in a 1991 issue of Action Comics, she seemed surprised. Gotta love DC's continuity.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Hi all

Thanks for all of your comments and the interesting discussions. I'm going to be late with my wrap-up this fortnight, as I'm heading off to a conference this afternoon and won't be back until late Sunday. So it will probably be Monday before I can do final comments.

Cheers

QQ

[The Australian Panther]

  QQ said

So it will probably be Monday before I can do final comments.

That works beause my first post for the next fortnight will be Monday. Might wait for the other hemisphere monday - OZ being half a day ahead .Just checked - there is a nine-hour difference, so I will post in Mid-afternoon my time.
Cheers!

[The Australian Panther]

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=37764
Brenda Starr – Oct 1963 – Dell One Shots
This period in Dell and Gold Key history was full of surprises - you never knew what they were going to publish next. My favorites were the movie adaptations. People like Mike Sekowsky, Alex Toth Dan Speigle and John Buscema did a lot of them. So, good quality.  I have many of them. 

And then there were the attempts to create new comics based on already existing comic strips.
Which brings us to Brenda.
Great Cover. Dale definitely liked 'Sparkles' and 'Bubbles'
That Black Orchid dominates the cover and really looks malignant!
Wedding Dresses
Clearly, Dale had a design flair and was probably passionate about designing womens clothing and 'powder room paraphernalia'. [Try saying that, fast 5 times!]
In the books we have seen so far in this post, I don't think we have yet met 'Teaser' and 'Twirl' (From the hair styles?)
Yep! I see from the inside back page that their names are 'Teaser Combs' and 'Twirl O'Curl' and also introduced to the cast is gossip columnist, 'Killbirdie' complete with outrageous hat. I wonder who she is based on?   
The adaptation of the strip to the comic format is done very well. The juxtaposition of large and small panels has been well thought out.
The dog seems to have changed colour from White to Brown since his introduction. And he seems to be Brenda's dog now. 
Obviously there is narrative missing from the middle of page 21.
So a rival for a man's afftections is a 'mad scientist [!!]' who is prepared to resort to murder?
Definitely a Soap Opera aimed at a female audience. A strong, simple and clear - definitely Gould influenced- visual narrative that makes it work well. i can see why it lasted so long.
An Aside, I wonder how much Mike Grell's art was infuenced by his time on this strip. There are elements of his work that remind me of it.
Wonder why Dell only gave it one issue? 
Cheers!
See you all on Monday.   

[SuperScrounge]

How did Lynda Carter manage to do anything in that skimpy outfit?.

Apparently there were a few times when she... um... 'popped out of her top' while filming.

I bet Gal Gadot was pleased they gave her version of WW a different costume..

Yeah. Although I believe it was based on a version of the costume used in the comics at the time. (Once upon a time hero costumes rarely changed, these days new artists design new costumes all the time, so they can get royalties when the new costume gets used in movies, TV, video games, or on action figures.)

It's interesting that Lois suspected Clark was Superman from early on. But then when they did the big reveal in a 1991 issue of Action Comics, she seemed surprised. Gotta love DC's continuity.

Well, there were a few continuity changes between 1941 & 1991. The creation of Earth-Two, where heroes from the 1930s & 1940's lived, Crisis On Infinite Earths which wiped out the multiverse idea, and the John Byrne reboot of Superman which wiped out all previous continuity, which I think included Lois trying to prove Clark was Superman.

Wonder why Dell only gave it one issue?

Well, when Dell & Western went their separate ways in 1962, Dell had to make their own comics, so it seems like there was a lot of "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" approach to some of what they published. I'd guess someone thought a Brenda Starr comic book could work, but either sales were really bad or maybe the Brenda Starr rights holders were unhappy with it?

[The Australian Panther]

these days new artists design new costumes all the time, so they can get royalties when the new costume gets used in movies, TV, video games, or on action figures.

Makes sense, but I also notice a tendency for costumes in the comics to change to match the costumes used in the films. Hawkeye is a good example. Female costumes tend to change more than male costumes - logical really- I'm thinking Storm, Scarlett Witch, Jean Grey, Black Canary, Catwoman - just off the top of my head.
Who wants to be seen always  wearing the same old thing? I thought that Wonder Woman's current book costume changed with DC"s last reboot or was that influenced by the costume used in the film?
Not that male costumes don't change.  Batman, Wolverine, the Fantastic Four, Cyclops, Iron Man. Personally I'm partial to Tony's original, the bulky yellow costume.
Cheers!

[SuperScrounge]

Female costumes tend to change more than male costumes - logical really- I'm thinking Storm, Scarlett Witch, Jean Grey, Black Canary, Catwoman - just off the top of my head.

The Wasp was considered the fashion horse for different costumes back in the 1980s, before the royalties for movies & action figures kicked in. I'm not sure if the artists just enjoyed creating costumes for her or if that was supposed to be her 'personality' at the time.

[The Australian Panther]

  I'm not sure if the artists just enjoyed creating costumes for her or if that was supposed to be her 'personality' at the time. 

For a while there, she even ran her own fashion house.   

[SuperScrounge]

Given there was some discussion on Hedda Hopper, here's her Wikipedia page.

Can't remember if I ever saw the I Love Lucy appearance, but I did like her cameo in the movie Sunset Boulevard.

[Quirky Quokka]

Given there was some discussion on Hedda Hopper, here's her Wikipedia page.

Can't remember if I ever saw the I Love Lucy appearance, but I did like her cameo in the movie Sunset Boulevard.

Hi SuperScrounge, thanks for that link. I didn't realise she was one of the people responsible for the Hollywood blacklist and a supporter of the House Un-American Activities Commitee. Amazing that a 'gossip' columnist could be so influential. Imagine what she would have done with social media.

I couldn't find the clip I was looking for, but I found this one I'd forgotten about. This was in the last season of 'I Love Lucy' in which Hedda Hopper visits Lucy and Ricky's home in Connecticut to interview them for her column. She appears in the first three mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66yu8vmGhrc&t=64s

But the episode I was thinking of was during the time Ricky and Lucy were in Hollywoord and Lucy cooks up one of her hare-brained schemes to get Hedda to notice them and put Ricky in her column. The plan is that Lucy will pretend she's drowning in the hotel pool and Ricky will jump in to save her. Lucy sees what she thinks is Hedda's hat above a hedge and jumps in the pool, only it's not Hedda. I found that clip, but not the one that Hedda was actually in. Oh well, she was definitely a cultural icon of the times and seemed to enioy her own celebrity as well.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Hi everyone

Still recovering from a very full, busy and fun conference, so here are some wrap-up comments.

Thank you for all of your commnents and interactions. I always learn something from the knowledge of the group. As we saw, the 1949 and 1955 comic books actually contain stories from earlier strips. I must say I was a bit surprised that 'Brenda Starr, Reporter' didn't actually do much reporting in these stories. As one of you said, they were more 'slice of life'. As far as reporters go, I preferred 'Front Page Peggy', who we looked at a couple of months ago. She really got in the midst of a story, whereas these ones were done more for humour. Nothing wrong with humour, but I just thought that there would be a bit more investigative journalism.

The fat shaming in the 1949 one was fairly obvious, with even Brenda seeming to disparage her country cousin. But Abretha takes it all in her stride (isn't that what jolly fat people do?). By the 1955 one, they have slimmed her down a little, and she has her own romance and marriage in later issues. Although she doesn't appear in the story in the 1963 one, she is still included in the cast list on the last page, so they must have been expecting to do other issues and still include her.

I thought Hank O'Hair was an interesting character. In the 1949 issue, it took me a while to realise it was a woman. Both the name, appearance and chain-smoking made me think it was a man. Apparently, she was based on a real reporter, Pat O'Haire. I put this link in earlier, but if you haven't seen it, just scroll down a little and there's a pic and a little blurb of the real Pat.

https://www.markcarlson-ghost.com/index.php/2020/06/30/brenda-starr/

Now what can we say about the 1963 one-shot? I could sum it up in one word. Disappointing. I think they have totally changed the whole tone of the comic. They were obviously trying to tap into the romance market that was popular with teen girls, but they have made Brenda into a sobbing piece of fluff. Readers who had followed the previous sagas of Brenda and her mystery man may have been happy they were finally together, but it wasn't much of a story leading up to that. Plus Brenda didn't act like the savvy reporter she was supposed to be. Why didn't it work? Crashryan mentioned some of the problems with Dell and Western around that time, so maybe one book wasn't enough to give it a chance. They may have lost readers who liked the old Brenda, and they hadn't really had a chance to grab those female teens.

By the way, do any of you remember seeing a similar story re poison orchids being used in a TV show? I have a vague recollection of seeing a crime show in which poison orchids were delivered to someone, but I can't remember. Or maybe I'm delusional - LOL

In any case, I was glad to go on this brief trip through some of Brenda's history. Thank you all for your participation.

Panther is up next with some new selections.

Cheers

QQ

[The Australian Panther]

3 Observations
1/

Now what can we say about the 1963 one-shot? I could sum it up in one word. Disappointing. I think they have totally changed the whole tone of the comic. They were obviously trying to tap into the romance market that was popular with teen girls, but they have made Brenda into a sobbing piece of fluff. Readers who had followed the previous sagas of Brenda and her mystery man may have been happy they were finally together, but it wasn't much of a story leading up to that.   

Note what I said earlier about the editors chopping out the subplots. Yes, that's how it appears and the audience for the comic would have been teenage girls.
But the audience for the newspaper strip would have included housewives and secretaries and single women. Except for radio, there was no teleivision and no soap operas.
A core narrative of a woman having a relationship with an unobtainable handsome mysterious man and constantly competing with other scheming women would have gone down a treat, I think!  I doubt that that audience cared whether she ever did real reporting!
2/
From a 21st Century perspective ( and I note nobody has said this yet) I have always read Hank O'hair as an oblique reference to lesbianism. Met a few like that.
3/ I note (from that link) Ramona Fradon took over the art chores for some time.
Thanks QQ!
You might be surprised by my post later today!       

[Quirky Quokka]

3 Observations
1/

Now what can we say about the 1963 one-shot? I could sum it up in one word. Disappointing. I think they have totally changed the whole tone of the comic. They were obviously trying to tap into the romance market that was popular with teen girls, but they have made Brenda into a sobbing piece of fluff. Readers who had followed the previous sagas of Brenda and her mystery man may have been happy they were finally together, but it wasn't much of a story leading up to that.   

Note what I said earlier about the editors chopping out the subplots. Yes, that's how it appears and the audience for the comic would have been teenage girls.
But the audience for the newspaper strip would have included housewives and secretaries and single women. Except for radio, there was no teleivision and no soap operas.
A core narrative of a woman having a relationship with an unobtainable handsome mysterious man and constantly competing with other scheming women would have gone down a treat, I think!  I doubt that that audience cared whether she ever did real reporting!

Yes, you're probably right. Though the fact she was supposed to be a female reporter making it in a man's world (much like her creator was a female cartoonist in a man's world) could have also been aspirational for other women who hoped to have a career. Though that didn't stop me from watching 'Days of Our Lives' right through my Uni years! 

rom a 21st Century perspective ( and I note nobody has said this yet) I have always read Hank O'hair as an oblique reference to lesbianism. Met a few like that.

Yes, I wondered that. Was Dale Messick an early champion of LGBTI inclusion, or was she just giving a nod to the real Pat O'Haire?

Cheers

QQ

[SuperScrounge]

Hank of Hair was a pre-existing term, not used much these days, but is no doubt where Dale got the pun.

It seems Kipling used the expression "a rag, a bone, a hank of hair" in a poem to refer to women.

Here's a definition of Hank.

Instead of cutting her hair short she should have let it grow to 840 yards.